Funny Business: The Money Trail of Comedy with Josh Johnson
In this episode of the Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin podcast, comedian Josh Johnson provides insights into the business side of comedy. He explains that aspiring comedians typically start by performing unpaid sets at multiple venues to build their skills and industry connections. As they gain experience, opportunities emerge to earn income through paid club performances, tours, and comedy specials.
Johnson outlines the various revenue streams available to comedians, including corporate gigs, writing work, and monetizing their content through platforms like social media and online. He also highlights the challenges of pursuing comedy as a career, such as the lack of a defined path and the need for business savvy to manage finances and income diversification.
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1-Page Summary
The career path of a professional comedian
Aspiring comedians must work for free to build skills and reputation
Josh Johnson explains that new comedians typically perform unpaid spots at multiple clubs per night to develop their skills and following. Some transition from fields like acting or law, leveraging transferable skills.
As comedians gain experience, income opportunities emerge
With more experience, Johnson says comedians can earn money through club performances and tours, potentially negotiating lucrative "door deals." Writing for shows or producing self-funded specials also provides income.
Revenue streams and monetization for comedians
Comedians start with unpaid spots to build connections
Johnson notes that unpaid work is essential for establishing industry connections. Clubs may offer guarantees to support a comedian's first headlining weekend.
Monetizing content through touring, specials, and brand building
Comedians hit the road touring clubs, and some organize their own shows. They monetize platforms via comedy specials tied to networks or self-released online. A strong social media presence aids in securing deals, says Johnson.
Corporate gigs and "punch-up" script work offer additional income
Comedians earn revenue through corporate shows as well as improving humor in scripts, known as "punch-up" jobs.
The business aspects of comedy
No set career path poses challenges for aspiring comedians
Johnson highlights the lack of formal training or structure in comedy. There's no defined path to start earning from the craft.
Comedians must be business-savvy to manage finances
Without industry benefits, comedians handle retirement planning individually. High earners might incorporate to save via SEP IRAs. Negotiation skills are key.
Income diversification sustains comedy careers
To make a viable income, Johnson says comedians branch into stand-up, acting, writing, and comedy-related work. Building a personal brand online can monetize content.
1-Page Summary
Additional Materials
Clarifications
- "Door deals" in comedy typically involve a payment arrangement where a comedian receives a percentage of the ticket sales or a flat fee based on the number of audience members they bring to a show. This can be a way for comedians to negotiate their compensation directly based on their drawing power and audience appeal. It's a common practice in the comedy industry to incentivize performers to promote and fill the venue, benefiting both the comedian and the club hosting the event.
- "Punch-up" script work involves enhancing the humor and comedic elements of a script, typically in movies, TV shows, or other forms of entertainment. Comedians are hired to review existing scripts and add jokes, improve timing, and make the dialogue funnier. This process aims to elevate the comedic quality of the content and make it more engaging for the audience. It requires a keen understanding of comedic timing, wit, and the ability to enhance the script without altering the core storyline.
- A SEP IRA, or Simplified Employee Pension Individual Retirement Arrangement, is a retirement account used by business owners to provide retirement benefits for themselves and their employees. Contributions to a SEP IRA are tax-deductible, reducing the taxpayer's income tax liability in the contribution year. SEP IRAs have flexible eligibility criteria, but all eligible employees must receive the same benefits under the plan. Funds in a SEP IRA can be invested similarly to other types of IRAs.
- Incorporating for retirement planning involves setting up a corporate entity, like an S-Corporation, to manage your comedy earnings. This structure allows comedians to take advantage of retirement savings options like SEP IRAs, which offer tax benefits and higher contribution limits. By incorporating, comedians can potentially save more for retirement compared to traditional individual retirement accounts. This strategy is often used by high-earning individuals in various industries to optimize their retirement savings.
- Negotiation skills in a comedy career are essential for comedians to secure favorable deals for performances, writing gigs, and other opportunities. Comedians often negotiate their pay rates, terms of contracts, and creative control over their work. Strong negotiation skills can help comedians maximize their earnings, protect their interests, and build sustainable careers in the industry. Understanding the value of their talent and being able to effectively communicate and advocate for themselves can lead to better opportunities and financial rewards.
Counterarguments
- While unpaid spots are common, not all comedians agree with this approach, arguing that it devalues their work and that even beginners should strive for some compensation.
- The idea that experience naturally leads to income opportunities overlooks the role of market saturation and the reality that not all talented comedians find financial success.
- The emphasis on unpaid work for connections might discourage talented individuals who cannot afford to work for free, suggesting a potential bias towards those with financial support.
- Monetizing through touring and specials assumes a level of success and popularity that many comedians may never achieve, which can be misleading for newcomers.
- The reliance on social media for deals may not apply to all comedians, especially those who excel in live performances but do not have a strong online presence.
- Corporate gigs and script work are not accessible to all comedians and may require a different set of skills or industry connections that not everyone possesses.
- The lack of a defined career path in comedy can be seen as a freedom to create one's own journey rather than just a challenge.
- The need for business savvy implies that all comedians must be good at business, which may not be true or necessary if they have good representation or management.
- Income diversification, while beneficial, may not be feasible for all comedians, especially those who wish to focus solely on stand-up comedy without branching out.
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The career path of a professional comedian
Josh Johnson shares insights into the evolving career path of a professional comedian, highlighting the progression from unpaid performances to potentially lucrative opportunities as a comedian gains experience and recognition.
Aspiring comedians must often work for free at the start of their careers to gain experience and build a following
Johnson emphasizes that when someone starts off in comedy, there typically isn't any money involved because they are not yet skilled performers.
New comedians typically perform unpaid spots at comedy clubs to develop their skills and stage presence, which may involve jumping between multiple venues in a single night
In the beginning, stand-up comedians often work for free and need to perform spots at clubs in cities like New York, Chicago, or Austin, potentially doing several 10 to 15-minute sets at different venues in one night to hone their skills and stage presence.
Some comedians transition into comedy from other fields like acting or law, as the skills involved can translate to stand-up
Johnson also mentions that individuals often transition into comedy from fields such as theater and law. Actors can carry over their stage presence skills, while law students or lawyers may bring adeptness in constructing arguments, which can be particularly useful in delivering comedic narratives.
As comedians gain more experience and recognition, they can start earning revenue through various means
Comedians can earn money through touring and performing at comedy clubs, with potential for lucrative "door deals" as they become more established
As they gain a reputation, comedians can begin earning revenue through touring and performing at clubs. Johnson explains that clubs may offer comedians a guarantee as a gesture of goodwill for future relationships when they allow them to headline without a previous market history.
Established comedians also sometimes perform for little to no fee to test new material, as in the example of Judd Apatow performing at the improv. Experienced comedians can negotiate contracts where they receive a split of the revenue after reaching certain sales benchmarks or even negotiate for all door revenue, letting the venue take the profits from foo ...
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The career path of a professional comedian
Additional Materials
Clarifications
- "Door deals" in comedy clubs typically involve an arrangement where comedians receive a portion of the ticket sales or cover charges collected at the entrance (the "door") of the venue where they are performing. This can be a way for comedians to earn money based on the number of audience members they attract to the show. It's a common practice in the comedy industry for both emerging and established comedians to negotiate these deals with clubs as part of their performance agreements. The comedian's ability to draw in a crowd can directly impact their earnings through these door deals.
- "Punch-up" work on scripts involves enhancing the humor and comedic elements of a script, typically in movies, TV shows, or other forms of entertainment. Comedians are often hired to add jokes, improve timing, and make the dialogue funnier to enhance the overall comedic impact of the script. This process aims to make the script more engaging and entertaining for the audience by injecting wit and humor into the existing material. It's a collaborative effort where comedians use their comedic skills to elevate the humor in the script, making it more appealing and engaging for viewers.
- When comedians negotiate contracts for revenue splits, they agree to share the earnings from their performances with the venue or other parties based on specific terms. Door revenue agreements involve comedians receiving a portion of the ticket sales directly from the venue, often after meeting certain sales targets. These arrangements can vary widely and are typically negotiated to ensure fair compensation for the comedian based on their draw and performance.
- Performing for free to test new material is a common practice among comedians where the ...
Counterarguments
- While performing for free is common, it can perpetuate a cycle where only those with financial support can afford to pursue comedy, potentially limiting diversity.
- The necessity of unpaid spots may discourage talented individuals who cannot afford to work without pay, suggesting a need for alternative support systems for emerging comedians.
- Transitioning from other fields like acting or law may not always provide a significant advantage, as stand-up comedy requires a unique set of skills not necessarily found in other professions.
- Touring and performing at comedy clubs might not be viable for all comedians, especially those with responsibilities that prevent extensive travel.
- Performing for little to no fee to test new material could be seen as undervaluing one's work, and it may not be a sustainable practice for all comedians, especially those without estab ...
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Revenue streams and monetization for comedians
The comedy industry, while challenging, offers various revenue streams for comedians who are willing to start from the ground up, diversify their work, and capitalize on their brand.
Comedians often start out performing unpaid spots to build experience and reputation
Comedians normally start their careers by performing for free, a practice that's considered an essential part of building a career in comedy. According to Johnson, this period of unpaid work isn't just for the sake of exposure but also helps to establish essential connections within the industry. For instance, clubs might offer a decent guarantee for a comedian's first headlining weekend, signifying the club's support even if large crowds aren't expected.
As comedians progress, they sometimes continue to perform essentially for free to test out new material. On a good night, performing several spots in one city can earn a comedian about $100 per spot—though this is not a daily event and depends on demand.
Comedians can monetize their content and brand in various ways
To make a real income, comedians often hit the road, performing whole weekends at clubs. These appearances might include door deals, where a strong ticket-selling comedian can negotiate a larger share of the revenue. Moreover, some comedians organize their own shows, creating market history to present to potential buyers or venues.
Josh Johnson talks about how comedians can diversify their income by branching into areas such as acting or sketch writing, in addition to monetizing their platforms on various online channels. Comedy specials are a significant source of income, especially when tied to streaming platforms or released on YouTube. These specials can expand a comedian's profile and bring in a notable advance.
Social media presence is now a key part of a comedian's portfolio when applying for festivals or negotiating deals. George Lopez, as an example, showed how established comedians can bring substantial income to clubs through other revenue streams like food and drink sales, by choosing to perform there.
For his special with Comedy Central, Johnson didn't have to put up any money because of his established relationship and history with the network. In contrast, his latest special with Peacock was self-funded, and then licensed to the streaming service—a move that pai ...
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Revenue streams and monetization for comedians
Additional Materials
Clarifications
- In comedy clubs, door deals are agreements where comedians negotiate a share of the revenue based on the number of tickets they sell. This arrangement allows comedians to potentially earn more if they bring in a larger audience. It incentivizes performers to promote their shows and can be a way for comedians to increase their earnings beyond a standard performance fee.
- Monetizing platforms on various online channels involves comedians leveraging their online presence to generate income. This can include earning money through ads, sponsorships, merchandise sales, and paid content. Popular platforms for comedians to monetize include YouTube, Patreon, and social media platforms like Instagram and TikTok. By building a strong following and engaging audience, comedians can create diverse revenue streams beyond traditional live performances.
- In negotiations for comedy specials, a take-it-or-leave-it deal means that the offer presented by the streaming platforms or studios is non-negotiable. Comedians may have limited room to negotiate terms like payment or creative control. If the offer doesn't meet the comedian's financial needs or expectations, they may have to decide whether to accept the terms as they are or decline the opportunity altogether. This approach can sometimes lead to a firm stance from comedians or their teams in ensuring that the deal aligns with their requirements.
- "Punch-up" jobs in script improvement involve comedians being hired to enhance the humor in scripts, such as for movies, TV shows, or other comedic content. Comedians add jokes, refine existing humor, or suggest changes to make the script funnier and more engaging. They are typically brought in during different stages o ...
Counterarguments
- While unpaid spots are common, some argue that they devalue the profession and can exploit new comedians.
- The reliance on connections within the industry can create barriers to entry for those without access to established networks.
- The $100 per spot figure may not account for the expenses incurred by comedians, such as travel and accommodation.
- Hitting the road can be financially and personally taxing, and not all comedians may find this lifestyle sustainable.
- Door deals are not guaranteed and often only benefit established comedians with a proven audience.
- Organizing their own shows requires upfront investment and business acumen, which not all comedians may possess.
- Diversifying into acting or writing is not a viable option for all comedians, as these fields are also highly competitive and require different skill sets.
- The monetization of online platforms is increasingly challenging due to market saturation and changing algorithms.
- Comedy specials can be significant, but the market is crowded, and not all specials will be successful or profitable.
- Social media presence requires constant engagement and content creation, which can be time-consuming and may not always lead to tangible financial benefits.
- Established comedians may bring in substantial income, but this does n ...
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The business and financial aspects of the comedy industry
Aspiring comedians face a complex and unpredictable path to financial stability in the comedy industry, where the blueprint for success is largely non-existent. Johnson’s discussion reveals the multilayered nature of establishing and maintaining a comedy career.
The comedy industry lacks a clear career path or formal training, making it challenging for aspiring comedians to navigate
The path to becoming a paid comedian is circuitous and often unpaid at the start. Johnson suggests there's no formal structure to the industry or specific timeline for when comedians can begin earning money. Success in comedy is not based on a set meritocracy, with career progress often depending on the comedian’s solo efforts.
There is no set timeline for when comedians can expect to start earning a living from their craft, as success is largely unpredictable
Comedians earn money through club gigs and by touring to do weekend shows at headliner clubs. However, there is no guaranteed timeline for when a comedian might start making money from these appearances.
Comedians must be savvy business people and self-advocates to negotiate fair deals and manage their finances effectively
Without a union or pension in the comedy industry, comedians must manage their retirement plans individually through mechanisms like an IRA. High-earning comedians might incorporate and save through a SEP IRA. They must also be savvy negotiators to secure fair pay and understand market values, especially when it comes to producing and selling comedy specials.
Successful comedians often need to diversify their income streams to sustain a viable career
To sustain their careers, comedians often become multifaceted, branching into stand-up, acting, writing, and other comedy-related work. They perform live, self-produce specials, and engage in diverse professional activities.
In addition to touring and performing, comedians can generate revenue through writing, acting, and other comedy-related work
While performing comedy is a significant form of income, writing offers another substantial revenue stream, qual ...
Here’s what you’ll find in our full summary
The business and financial aspects of the comedy industry
Additional Materials
Clarifications
- In the comedy industry, there isn't a clear, step-by-step path or a specific timeframe for comedians to start earning money. Unlike some professions with structured career progressions, comedians often have to navigate their own way to financial stability through gigs, tours, and other opportunities. This lack of a formal structure means that success in comedy is highly unpredictable and can vary greatly from person to person. Comedians must rely on their own efforts, skills, and networking to establish themselves and start making a living from their craft.
- In the comedy industry, without a union or pension system in place, comedians are responsible for managing their retirement plans independently. This means they must take personal initiative to set up and contribute to retirement accounts like Individual Retirement Accounts (IRAs) or Simplified Employee Pension (SEP) IRAs to secure their financial future post-career. The absence of a structured retirement benefit scheme common in other professions puts the onus on comedians to proactively save and invest for their retirement. This self-reliant approach requires comedians to be financially savvy and plan for their long-term financial well-being without the safety net of traditional pension plans.
- A SEP IRA, or Simplified Employee Pension Individual Retirement Account, is a retirement savings plan that allows self-employed individuals and small business owners to contribute a percentage of their income. High-earning comedians can use a SEP IRA to save for retirement while also benefiting from potential tax advantages. Contributions to a SEP IRA are made by the employer (in this case, the comedian) and are tax-deductible, helping them save for the future while reducing their taxable income. SEP IRAs offer flexibility in contributions, making them a popular choice for those with variable incomes like comedians.
- Negotiating fair pay in producing and selling comedy specials involves discussing and agreeing on the compensation for creating and distributing a comedy show. Understanding market values in this context means being aware of the typical prices and rates for comedy specials in the industry. Comedians need to assess the demand for their content, consider production costs, and factor in their own brand value when determining the pricing for their specials. This process requires a combination of industry knowledge, negotiation skills, and business acumen to ensure that comedians receive fair compensation for their work.
- Monetizing content directly through online di ...
Counterarguments
- While the comedy industry may lack a formal career path, this is not unique to comedy and is common in many creative fields, suggesting that the need for self-navigation is a standard aspect of building a career in the arts.
- The idea that success in comedy is not based on a set meritocracy could be contested by arguing that talent and hard work do often lead to recognition and opportunities, even if the path is not linear or guaranteed.
- The assertion that there is no guaranteed timeline for earning a living might be countered by pointing out that some comedians do find early success through viral content or unique opportunities, indicating that there can be exceptions to the norm.
- The need for comedians to be savvy business people could be challenged by the existence of agents and managers who specialize in handling the business aspects for talent, potentially reducing the need for comedians to negotiate deals themselves.
- The emphasis on diversifying income streams might overlook the fact that some comedians have sustained successful careers by focusing primarily on one aspect of comedy ...
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