Podcasts > Modern Wisdom > #974 - Joe Folley - Existential Philosophy, Nietzsche, Suffering & Self-Awareness

#974 - Joe Folley - Existential Philosophy, Nietzsche, Suffering & Self-Awareness

By Chris Williamson

In this episode of Modern Wisdom, Joe Folley explores existential philosophy through the lens of major thinkers like Nietzsche and Camus. He examines Nietzsche's view of the human mind as a collection of competing drives rather than a unified will, and discusses how existentialist philosophers approached the role of suffering and resistance in human life.

The discussion delves into how existential philosophy differs from traditional philosophical approaches, particularly in its personal and experiential nature. Folley explains how philosophers like Nietzsche and Camus drew from their own experiences with chronic pain and depression to develop their ideas, and how they used narratives and stories to convey complex concepts about finding meaning in a seemingly meaningless world.

#974 - Joe Folley - Existential Philosophy, Nietzsche, Suffering & Self-Awareness

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#974 - Joe Folley - Existential Philosophy, Nietzsche, Suffering & Self-Awareness

1-Page Summary

Nietzsche's Conception of the Human Mind and Will

Nietzsche presents a radical view of the human mind, seeing it not as a unified will but as a collection of semi-autonomous drives. Rather than having one "train driver," Williamson and his guest explain that Nietzsche's mind resembles a racetrack with multiple drivers heading in different directions. This fragmented view of psychology influenced later thinkers and therapists, challenging traditional notions of coherent action and decision-making.

Existentialist Views on Suffering's Meaning and Resistance

Both Nietzsche and Camus viewed challenges and suffering as opportunities for growth rather than obstacles to overcome. Nietzsche, as interpreted by Bernard Regenster, believed that overcoming resistance is essential for human fulfillment and preventing nihilism. Despite his own chronic pain, Nietzsche advocated for "amor fati" - loving everything that happens - and saw suffering as a productive force to be channeled. Similarly, Camus, through his myth of Sisyphus, suggested that happiness can be found even in life's seemingly meaningless struggles.

The Personal, Autobiographical Nature of Existential Philosophy

Joe Folley explains that existentialist philosophy is deeply rooted in personal experience. Nietzsche's writings were influenced by his chronic pain and mental struggles, while Camus's work reflected his experiences with depression and disconnection. This personal basis means that existentialist philosophy can resonate deeply with some readers while seeming irrelevant to others, depending on shared experiences and psychological makeup.

The Tension Between Meaning and Meaninglessness in Life

Existentialist thinkers grappled with finding meaning in a seemingly meaningless world. Camus suggested embracing life's absurdity, as illustrated in his story of Sisyphus finding happiness in endless toil. However, Joe Folley points out that existentialists also warned against "excruciating meaning" - the danger of rigid belief systems that can become tyrannical. They advocated for a balance between meaning and meaninglessness.

The Subjective, Experiential Nature of Existential Philosophy

Unlike traditional philosophical approaches, existentialists often conveyed their ideas through novels, stories, and anecdotes. Folley discusses how authors like Dostoevsky and Nietzsche used narratives to connect philosophical concepts to everyday experiences. This narrative approach allows readers to process complex themes emotionally rather than just intellectually, though its effectiveness depends on how well readers relate to the author's experiences and worldview.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • Nietzsche's conception of the mind as a collection of drives may be overly reductionist and ignore the potential for unity and coherence in human psychology.
  • The metaphor of the mind as a racetrack with multiple drivers may oversimplify the complex interactions and hierarchies within our mental processes.
  • The idea that suffering is inherently productive can be challenged on the grounds that not all suffering leads to growth and can sometimes result in trauma or a decrease in well-being.
  • The concept of "amor fati" might be unrealistic or unattainable for many individuals, especially those facing extreme adversity.
  • The personal and autobiographical nature of existential philosophy could be seen as too subjective, potentially limiting its generalizability and applicability to a broader audience.
  • The existentialist emphasis on personal experience may overlook structural and societal factors that shape individual experiences and philosophies.
  • The tension between meaning and meaninglessness is not universally accepted; some philosophical traditions argue for intrinsic meaning in life or the possibility of objective values.
  • The narrative approach of existentialists, while emotionally engaging, may lack the rigor and clarity of traditional philosophical argumentation.
  • Reliance on personal narrative and anecdote in existential philosophy could be criticized for lacking empirical support or scientific validity.
  • The effectiveness of existential philosophy's narrative approach may not translate across different cultural or historical contexts, limiting its universality.

Actionables

  • You can reflect on your internal drives by journaling to understand the different motivations that influence your decisions. Start by writing down a recent decision you made and list out all the factors that played a role in it. This could include emotional impulses, logical reasoning, external pressures, or subconscious desires. Over time, you'll begin to see patterns in how these drives interact and can better manage them for more coherent decision-making.
  • Embrace life's challenges by setting a 'growth challenge' for yourself each month. Choose an area of your life that you find difficult or have been avoiding, such as public speaking, learning a new skill, or addressing a personal flaw. Approach this challenge with the mindset that, regardless of the outcome, the process itself will contribute to your personal growth and resilience against nihilism.
  • Create a 'meaning balance sheet' to find your equilibrium between meaning and meaninglessness. On one side, list out activities, relationships, and goals that provide you with a sense of purpose. On the other, identify moments where you can let go of the search for meaning and simply experience life as it is, such as during meditation, leisure walks, or while engaging in a hobby without a goal in mind. Regularly review and adjust your balance sheet to maintain a healthy balance that resonates with your personal experiences.

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#974 - Joe Folley - Existential Philosophy, Nietzsche, Suffering & Self-Awareness

Nietzsche's Conception of the Human Mind and Will

Williamson and his guest delve into Nietzsche's radical ideas about the human mind and will, exploring how they contrast with traditional views and the influence on later thought.

Nietzsche Sees the Mind As Distinct Drives, Not a Unified Will

Nietzsche conceptualizes the human will not as a unified, singular force but rather as a collection of semi-autonomous drives. This stands in stark contrast to many thinkers before him who imagined the will as a singular entity in control. Nietzsche rejects the simplistic notion of the will as a single object, instead suggesting that the mind is composed of various drives with different goals and directions. Williamson and the guest dissect this idea with the analogy of the mind not having one train driver, but resembling a racetrack with several drivers, each with their own design and direction, and some even going backwards or upside down.

Contrasts With Traditional Views of a Single-Controlling Mind

This conception of the mind highlights the significant departure from the traditional views that depict a single-controlling mind, likened to a "little man driving our bodies." Nietzsche’s idea of an organized will refers to having all drives pointing in a single direction, whereas a disorganized will occurs when these drives are scattered and pulling the individual in various directions.

Nietzsche on Conflicting Drives: Challenges to Coherent Action

Discussing Nietzsche's insights into the psyche, they touch upon his analysis of 'ressentiment', or resentment, which he views as a drive that surfaces in response to feelings of powerlessness. Joe Folley brings up Nietzsche's critique of compassion, suggesting that for Nietzsche, offering compassion is a form of resistance that an individual needs to overcome to grow. This aligns with Nietzsche’s view of the mind's drives competing against each other, rather than abiding by a singular, unified will.

Nietzsche criticizes what he refers to as "weak people," a confusing term as his definition deviates from the standard interpretation. His perspective oscillates between expressing scorn and yet claiming to love all peo ...

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Nietzsche's Conception of the Human Mind and Will

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Counterarguments

  • Nietzsche's view of the mind as composed of distinct drives could be criticized for potentially oversimplifying the complexity of mental processes and the integration seen in cognitive functions.
  • The idea of a single-controlling mind, while perhaps outdated, can be defended by pointing to the coherence and unity of consciousness that many individuals experience, suggesting some form of central integration or control.
  • Nietzsche's organized vs. disorganized will concept might be challenged by arguing that human behavior can exhibit both traits simultaneously, reflecting a more nuanced interplay between different aspects of the will.
  • The notion that conflicting drives inherently challenge coherent action could be countered by suggesting that internal conflict can lead to more deliberate and considered decision-making, enhancing the coherence of actions.
  • Nietzsche's critique of compassion could be met with the argument that compassion and altruism are evolutionary traits that have played a crucial role in the survival and flourishing of human societies.
  • The criticism of "weak people" can be seen as a value judgment that may not take into account the socio-economic and psychol ...

Actionables

  • Explore your internal drives by keeping a "drive diary" where you note down different impulses, desires, and motivations as they occur throughout the day. This can help you identify the various drives Nietzsche speaks of and understand how they might conflict or align with each other, leading to a better understanding of your actions and decisions.
  • Create a "will organization chart" by mapping out your goals and the drives that support or hinder them. For each goal, list the drives that help you move towards it and those that pull you away. This visual representation can assist you in strategizing how to strengthen the drives that contribute to coherent action and manage the conflicting ones.
  • Engage in a "compassion critique" exercise where you reflect on ins ...

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#974 - Joe Folley - Existential Philosophy, Nietzsche, Suffering & Self-Awareness

Existentialist Views on Suffering's Meaning and Resistance

Joe Folley and Bernard Regenster delve into the existentialist perspectives of Nietzsche and Camus, exploring how challenges and suffering are reframed as opportunities for growth and meaning.

Nietzsche and Camus: Overcoming Challenges Essential for Fulfillment and Meaning

Viewed Suffering and Difficulty As Growth Opportunities, Not Obstacles

Joe Folley discusses Nietzsche's concept that the feeling of overcoming resistance is essential for existential fulfillment. Nietzsche's notion, as interpreted by Bernard Regenster, is that overcoming challenges is a primary source of human fulfillment. He equates feeling powerful with the act of overcoming, implying that powerlessness is a state of difficulty and unpleasantness. The existentialist narrative posits that the will to power is an intrinsic psychological need and that overcoming resistance can prevent nihilism by providing meaning to one’s actions.

Nietzsche saw potential in re-enchanting suffering, suggesting that even in pain, people can find reasons to celebrate if their ultimate aim is to overcome resistance. Fulfillment or the sense of achievement is partly defined by the difficulty or resistance one overcomes. He celebrated the process of overcoming resistance as akin to the joy experienced in competitive sports.

Nietzsche’s ultimate aim was the concept of amor fati, loving everything that happens, not just accepting it. He saw suffering as resistance to overcome and found enjoyment in overcoming it. Despite his personal sufferings and the challenges of his chronic pain condition, Nietzsche channeled his pain into his work, seeing suffering as something to be sublimated into a productive force.

Nietzsche was deeply concerned about human potential and opposed the pursuit of contentment if it meant avoiding challenges and resistance. Without resistance, he feared humanity might decay into passivity, thus never experiencing the joy of overcoming challenges.

Folley, reflecting on Nietzsche's views, notes that Nietzsche was against pity and compassion to the extent that they hold people back fro ...

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Existentialist Views on Suffering's Meaning and Resistance

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Clarifications

  • Nietzsche's concept of the "will to power" is a central idea in his philosophy, emphasizing the driving force behind human behavior. It suggests a fundamental drive for self-assertion, growth, and the pursuit of excellence. This concept encompasses the desire for individuals to exert control over their circumstances and to strive for mastery and self-realization. Nietzsche believed that this will to power was a fundamental aspect of human nature, influencing how individuals interact with the world and seek to overcome challenges.
  • Nietzsche's concept of amor fati, translated as "love of fate," encapsulates the idea of embracing and accepting everything that happens in one's life, viewing it not just with acceptance but with love and enthusiasm. It involves a deep appreciation for the totality of one's existence, including the inevitable suffering and challenges, as essential components of personal growth and fulfillment. Amor fati encourages individuals to not only endure their fate but to actively love and celebrate it, recognizing that every experience, even suffering, contributes to the richness and meaning of life. Nietzsche believed that by fully embracing and loving one's fate, individuals can transcend mere acceptance and find a profound sense of purpose and joy in the face of life's adversities.
  • Nietzsche opposed pity and compassion because he believed they could hinder personal growth by fostering dependency and preventing individuals from facing challenges head-on. He saw these emotions as potentially weakening the individual's resolve and resilience, ultimately hindering their ability to overcome obstacles and achieve self-mastery. Nietzsche valued strength, independence, and the will to power, viewing pity and compassion as antithetical to the developm ...

Counterarguments

  • While Nietzsche and Camus see suffering as an opportunity for growth, other philosophical traditions argue that suffering should be alleviated whenever possible, emphasizing compassion and empathy.
  • Some psychological theories suggest that not all individuals have the same capacity to turn suffering into a growth experience, and for some, it can lead to trauma or mental health issues.
  • The idea that fulfillment comes from overcoming challenges may not account for those who find meaning in contentment, stability, or the absence of suffering.
  • The will to power as an intrinsic need is a concept that has been contested by other philosophers who argue for different fundamental human drives, such as the will to pleasure (Freud) or the will to meaning (Frankl).
  • The notion that overcoming resistance prevents nihilism might be too simplistic, as nihilism can also arise from complex existential realizations that are not necessarily resolved through struggle.
  • Nietzsche's celebration of overcoming resistance may not resonate with those who value cooperation and collaboration over competition.
  • The concept of amor fati might be unrealistic or unattainable for many people, especially those suffering from severe or chronic conditions.
  • Nietzsche's opposition to pity and compassion can be criticized for lacking empathy and potentially justifying indifference to the suffering of others.
  • The existentialist re-enchantment of suffering might not be universa ...

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#974 - Joe Folley - Existential Philosophy, Nietzsche, Suffering & Self-Awareness

The Personal, Autobiographical Nature of Existential Philosophy

The philosophical insights of existentialist thinkers like Nietzsche and Camus come from deeply personal struggles, offering a subjective approach to coping with the difficulties of life.

Existentialists Nietzsche and Camus Explored Personal Struggles

Joe Folley and others have noted that the philosophies of Nietzsche and Camus are deeply intertwined with their personal experiences and struggles.

Philosophies Subjectively Coping With Suffering and Meaninglessness

Despite discussing themes of strength and overcoming, Nietzsche's own life was filled with physical and mental tribulations, which is evident in his work. He often wrote about the chronic pain that plagued him, which is seen as a direct influence on his thoughts about life's inherent suffering. This contradiction between his ideal and his reality suggests a significant struggle in finding satisfaction within the harsh aspects of life.

Furthermore, Nietzsche's emphasis on instinct over intellect implies that existential issues must be felt and enacted, not just contemplated, indicating a personal and experiential approach to philosophy.

Camus also infused his work with his personal experiences, particularly through characters struggling to connect with reality. His early novel "The Stranger" is a reflection of his own feelings of disconnection. Camus' philosophy often dealt with confronting life's inherent meaninglessness, a theme that may have been influenced by his own episodes of severe depression.

Personal Basis Contrasts With Universal in Existentialist vs. Other Philosophical Traditions

Existentialism: Deep Resonance for ...

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The Personal, Autobiographical Nature of Existential Philosophy

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Counterarguments

  • While existentialism is often personal, it also addresses universal human conditions such as freedom, isolation, and meaning, which can be relevant to all individuals, not just those with similar experiences to the philosophers.
  • The subjective nature of existentialism does not necessarily limit its applicability; different readers can find their own meaning and relevance in the works of Nietzsche and Camus, even without shared experiences.
  • Some critics argue that existentialism's focus on individual experience can lead to solipsism or excessive subjectivity, neglecting the importance of social and communal aspects of human life.
  • Other philosophical traditions also incorporate personal experiences and struggles; existentialism is not unique in this regard. For example, many of the writings of the Stoics reflect personal experiences with adversity.
  • The idea that existential philosophy may seem incomprehensible or nonsensical to those with different experiences could be seen as an oversimplification. Philosophical engagement often involves grappling with unfamiliar concepts and can lead to greater empathy and understanding.
  • Nietzsche's and Camus's works have been interpreted in various wa ...

Actionables

  • Start a personal "Existential Diary" where you jot down daily experiences and reflect on how they shape your understanding of existence. By doing this, you create a tangible record of your personal journey, similar to how Nietzsche and Camus's struggles informed their philosophies. For example, after a challenging day, write about how your feelings of frustration or accomplishment contribute to your sense of purpose.
  • Engage in "Philosophical Role-Playing" by imagining how you would handle situations from the perspective of an existential philosopher. This exercise helps you apply existential concepts to real-life scenarios. For instance, if faced with a moral dilemma, consider what choices would align with embracing life's absurdity, as Camus might suggest.
  • Create an "Existential Book Club" with friends or online community members where you read and discuss literature that delves into personal st ...

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#974 - Joe Folley - Existential Philosophy, Nietzsche, Suffering & Self-Awareness

The Tension Between Meaning and Meaninglessness in Life

The existential conundrum of finding meaning in life, despite its inherent meaninglessness, is a pivotal topic in philosophy. Existentialists grappled with this tension, seeking to balance the quest for meaning with the recognition of life's fundamental absurdity.

Existentialists Sought Meaning In a Perceived Meaningless World

"Imagining Sisyphus Happy": Embracing Life's Absurdity

According to Albert Camus's philosophy, maintaining the contradiction between an active search for meaning and the acceptance of life's absence of inherent meaning is crucial. Critics discuss Camus' assertion that one must imagine Sisyphus happy as he endlessly pushes his boulder uphill. The story encapsulates the absurdist notion of finding contentment by embracing life, no matter how repetitive or futile it may seem. This narrative encourages people to learn to be content, even when they feel their existence is as endlessly laborious as that of Sisyphus.

Friedrich Nietzsche’s views also converge on this theme, as reflected in his idea of the Übermensch, who finds meaning and creates values in a valueless world. Joe Folley explains that for Nietzsche, the act of overcoming resistance is essential, and challenge and resistance are valuable in themselves. Similarly, Nietzsche's personal use of suffering and pain to focus his mind and fuel his writing reflects the existentialist idea of seeking meaning through the embrace of life's inherent challenges.

Some Existentialists Saw Excess Meaning as Problematic as a Lack of Meaning

Caution Against Rigid, Constraining Belief Systems

Joe Folley introduces the concept of "excruciating meaning," suggesting that an overload of perceived meaning in life can be just as uncomfortable as its absence. Camus extends this discussion to politics, expressing discomfort with rigid and overbearing belief systems following his writing of "The Myth of Sisyphus." He examines the problem of excessive meaning leading to tyranny, using examples such as Stalin's USSR and theocratic governmen ...

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The Tension Between Meaning and Meaninglessness in Life

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Clarifications

  • The Übermensch, or "Overman," in Nietzsche's philosophy, represents a superior individual who transcends conventional morality and societal norms. This concept emphasizes self-mastery, creativity, and the ability to create one's values beyond traditional beliefs. The Übermensch is envisioned as a goal for humanity to strive towards, embodying qualities of strength, independence, and a willingness to embrace life's challenges. Nietzsche viewed the Übermensch as a symbol of human potential liberated from restrictive moral frameworks.
  • Albert Camus was a French philosopher known for his concept of the Absurd, which explores the conflict between humanity's desire for meaning and the indifferent universe. Friedric ...

Actionables

  • You can start a "philosophical journal" where you reflect on daily experiences and their inherent meaning or lack thereof. By writing down your thoughts on events that happen to you, you can practice finding personal significance in a seemingly random world. For example, if you had a chance encounter with an old friend, explore what values and meanings you derive from that incident.
  • Create a personal "value canvas" by listing values that resonate with you and actions that align with them. This can be a simple poster or digital document where you map out values you want to live by, without adhering to any pre-existing value systems. For instance, if you value creativity, you might list actions like 'write a poem once a week' or 'cook a new recipe every month' to actively cultivate that value in your life.
  • Engage in a monthly "absurdity challenge" where you deliberately put yourself in situations tha ...

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#974 - Joe Folley - Existential Philosophy, Nietzsche, Suffering & Self-Awareness

The Subjective, Experiential Nature of Existential Philosophy

Existential philosophy is unique in its approach to conveying ideas; it often eschews abstract theoretical discourse for a more engaging narrative form. Joe Folley and Chris Williamson delve into how existentialists utilized narratives to engage readers and connect philosophy to lived experiences.

Existentialists Used Novels, Stories, and Anecdotes to Convey Ideas, Contrasting Abstract Philosophical Approaches

Folley notes that authors like Dostoevsky and Nietzsche used narratives like "Notes from Underground" and “The Genealogy of Morals” to relate to everyday issues through psychological insights and offer alternative perspectives on commonly accepted morals. For example, Dostoevsky's novels allow readers to emotionally process themes like resentment, which might be more difficult to fully comprehend through abstract reasoning. These psychological novels offer an in-depth view of one person's perspective, which can be incredibly valuable for readers who share similar concerns as the characters.

Connecting Ideas to Readers' Experiences

Joe Folley emphasizes the impact of narratives on readers by discussing the emotional consequences of the protagonist's outlook on life in "Notes From Underground." He argues that experiencing these narratives on an emotional level ingrains the lessons more deeply than cognitive understanding alone. Folley also points out that although fictional narratives are inherently false, they are used to convey lessons and engage the reader emotionally. He explains that while formal logic in philosophy may not appeal to emotions, a compelling narrative can present an important lesson in a memorable and impactful form.

Existentialism's Narrative Appeal Varies By Reader

The appeal of existential philosophy's narrative approach can vary greatly from one reader to another.

Readers Sharing Struggles or Worldviews With Existentialist Authors May Find Their Ideas Insightful

Folley touches upon how readers who share struggles or worldviews with existentialist authors like Nietzsche or Camus may find their works incredibly insightful. For instance, Nietzsche's focus on the joy of overcoming resistance and his question of finding joy in suffering can resonate deeply with those facing similar struggles. Camu ...

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The Subjective, Experiential Nature of Existential Philosophy

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Counterarguments

  • While existential philosophy often uses narratives to convey ideas, some critics argue that this approach can sometimes oversimplify complex philosophical concepts that require more rigorous, abstract reasoning.
  • The use of narratives in existential philosophy may not always effectively communicate the intended philosophical insights to all readers, as personal interpretation can lead to a wide variance in understanding.
  • The emotional impact of a narrative might overshadow the philosophical arguments, leading some readers to focus more on the story than the underlying ideas.
  • The claim that psychological novels provide an in-depth view of one person's perspective might be challenged by arguing that they still represent a filtered and authored perspective, which may not fully capture the complexity of real-life experiences.
  • Some critics might argue that the subjective nature of existential philosophy's narrative approach could limit its ability to provide universal insights or solutions to philosophical problems.
  • The idea that readers who share struggles or worldviews with existentialist authors find their ideas insightful could be countered by pointing out that exposure to diverse perspectives, not just familiar ones, is crucial ...

Actionables

  • You can deepen your emotional connection to existential themes by journaling your reactions after reading a psychological novel. As you read, note moments that stir strong feelings or thoughts, and then explore why these resonated with you. This practice can help you understand your own values and challenges in relation to the existential themes presented.
  • Create a personal "Existential Book Club" with friends or online community members who share similar life experiences. Discuss how the narratives and characters' struggles in existential literature mirror your own, fostering a shared exploration of philosophical ideas and personal growth.
  • Engage with existential philosophy through crea ...

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