#959 - Underoath - The Hidden Struggles Of Mental Health In Music
In this Modern Wisdom episode, Underoath band members Tim McTague and Aaron Gillespie explore the psychological challenges of life in the music industry. They discuss how touring creates a state of chronic displacement, affecting mental health and personal relationships, while also examining how the shift from physical to digital metrics has changed how musicians experience success.
The conversation delves into the complexities of maintaining artistic integrity while managing commercial pressures, and how musicians navigate aging in an industry that lacks positive role models for career longevity. McTague and Gillespie share insights on band dynamics, democratic decision-making, and finding contentment beyond professional achievements, offering a window into the personal costs and rewards of a career in music.
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Personal and Psychological Impacts of a Music Career
Musicians face unique psychological challenges in their careers, from the demands of touring to maintaining personal relationships while pursuing professional success. The discussion reveals the complex realities of life in the music industry.
The Toll of Touring
Tim McTague and Aaron Gillespie describe touring as a state of chronic displacement that takes a significant toll on musicians' mental health. They experience extreme emotional swings, from the highs of performing to the isolation of hotel rooms. Gillespie shares how this lifestyle strains relationships, recounting his quick transition from marriage to touring, while McTague describes the surreal experience of returning to an empty home after tours.
Career Success vs. Personal Life
The musicians discuss how achieving success in the industry brings its own psychological challenges. The shift from tangible metrics like SoundScan sales to digital statistics has made success feel less emotionally gratifying. McTague and Gillespie reveal the constant struggle to balance band obligations with family responsibilities, often wrestling with guilt over time spent away from loved ones.
Navigating Aging and Creative Evolution
The interviews highlight the challenge of aging in the music industry, with McTague and Gillespie noting the lack of positive role models for aging musicians. They explore the complexities of maintaining artistic integrity while managing commercial success. Gillespie reflects on how he once tried to replicate past successes but has since found fulfillment in creating authentic music regardless of popularity.
Collaborative Creation and Band Dynamics
The speakers emphasize the value of democratic decision-making in bands, with Gillespie highlighting Paramore's commitment to collective creativity. McTague and Gillespie discuss the importance of resisting external business pressures to maintain their artistic vision.
Finding Meaning Beyond Success
McTague and Gillespie emphasize the importance of finding contentment in present achievements rather than constantly chasing more success. They discuss appreciating simple pleasures and finding fulfillment in relationships and community. McTague speaks about accepting impermanence and being content with his career's natural evolution, while Williamson discusses the importance of impartiality and letting go of the need to control outcomes.
1-Page Summary
Additional Materials
Counterarguments
- While touring can be mentally taxing, some musicians thrive on the road and find the experience invigorating rather than draining.
- The emotional swings associated with touring might be mitigated by a strong support system and effective coping strategies.
- Digital metrics for success can be seen as a more accurate reflection of an artist's reach and engagement in the modern era, offering new opportunities for emotional gratification.
- There are indeed positive role models for aging musicians who have successfully adapted and evolved their careers while maintaining relevance and artistic integrity.
- The dichotomy between artistic integrity and commercial success is not always clear-cut; commercial success can sometimes enable greater artistic freedom.
- Democratic decision-making in bands, while valuable, may not always be the most efficient or effective way to make decisions, especially if it leads to conflict or indecision.
- Constantly chasing more success can be a driving force for innovation and improvement, rather than a negative pursuit.
- While appreciating simple pleasures is important, ambition and the desire for career advancement can also be healthy and fulfilling.
- The concept of accepting impermanence may not resonate with all musicians, some of whom may find motivation in striving for a lasting legacy.
- The need to control outcomes can be a positive trait if it leads to high-quality work and professional growth, as long as it is balanced with realistic expectations.
Actionables
- Create a "Tour Life Balance" journal to document your emotional state and relationship health while on the road. Use this journal to track patterns in your mood and interactions with loved ones, identifying triggers that lead to stress and developing personalized coping strategies, such as scheduling regular check-ins with family or setting aside time for relaxation and self-care.
- Develop a "Success Metrics" personal chart to redefine what success means to you beyond industry standards. This could involve setting goals related to personal growth, skill development, or community impact, rather than just commercial achievements. Regularly review and adjust these goals to ensure they align with your evolving values and provide a sense of fulfillment.
- Start a "Legacy Project" that focuses on creating positive role models for aging musicians. This could be a blog, podcast, or social media campaign where you interview seasoned musicians about their experiences, insights, and how they've navigated the challenges of aging in the industry. Share these stories to inspire and guide others, fostering a community that values longevity and wisdom in music.
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Personal and Psychological Impacts of a Music Career
The personal experiences of musicians reveal the psychological impacts of a music career, from the toll of constant touring to the struggle for balance between professional success and personal fulfillment, to navigating the uncharted waters of aging within the industry.
Touring: Challenges of Chronic Displacement and Overstimulation
Touring is characterized by chronic displacement, leaving musicians' nervous systems in a state of perpetual unease. Musicians endure high-pressure shows, interpersonal tension, and overstimulation with little off time.
Emotional Extremes of Touring: Connection to Isolation
Musicians experience emotional swings, from the highs of performing in front of a cheering audience to the quiet of a solitary hotel room, creating a cycle from deep connection to total isolation.
Touring's Impact on Mental Health and Burnout
Tim McTague and Aaron Gillespie discuss how touring can cause artists to unravel as the expectation to power through challenges without vulnerability persists. The culture of touring often rewards stoicism and can lead to mental health challenges and burnout.
Maintaining Healthy Relationships and Family Life During Touring
Musicians speak about strained relationships due to the touring lifestyle. Gillespie recounts quick turnaround from his wedding to touring, highlighting the difficulty of maintaining family life. McTague shares the surreal experience of returning to an empty home after tours.
The Tension Between Career Success and Personal Fulfillment
While achieving dreams in the music industry may seem desirable, it comes with psychological struggles like anxiety over sustaining success and the guilt associated with balancing career and family.
Bittersweet Reality Of Achieving Dreams In Music Industry
There's a sense that tangibility in success, like SoundScan sales, has shifted to less emotionally gratifying digital metrics. Additionally, each new level of success brings its own set of pressures and anxiety.
Balancing Creative Passions With Family and Personal Needs
Musicians like McTague and Gillespie talk about the tough choices between meeting obligations to the band and being there for family, revealing the hard work required to maintain a marriage and other personal relationships.
Guilt and Sacrifices That Accompany Prolonged Artistic Success
Feelings of guilt persist as musicians reflect on the time allocated to band versus family. Despite the joy in their craft, there's a recognition of the sacrifices made and their impact on personal relationships. ...
Here’s what you’ll find in our full summary
Personal and Psychological Impacts of a Music Career
Additional Materials
Counterarguments
- While touring can be stressful, some musicians thrive on the excitement and change of scenery, finding it invigorating rather than unsettling.
- Emotional swings during touring might be mitigated by strong support networks and effective coping strategies that some musicians develop.
- The culture of touring is changing, with more awareness and support for mental health, which can help prevent burnout and promote vulnerability.
- Some musicians successfully balance touring with family life through careful planning and the use of technology to maintain close relationships despite physical distance.
- Achieving dreams in the music industry can also lead to personal growth and fulfillment, which might outweigh the anxiety associated with sustaining success.
- Digital metrics can be emotionally gratifying for some artists, as they provide immediate feedback from a global audience and can be a source of motivation.
- The sacrifices made for a music career can be seen as worthwhile trade-offs when the artist's work positively impacts their audience or contributes to cultural enrichment.
- There are mu ...
Actionables
- Create a "Touring Journal" to document emotional states and experiences while on the road, using it as a tool for reflection and grounding. By regularly writing down thoughts, feelings, and events, you can track patterns in your emotional well-being, identify triggers for stress, and develop coping strategies. For example, if you notice a pattern of loneliness after concerts, you might schedule video calls with loved ones post-show.
- Develop a "Relationship Roadmap" for maintaining connections with family and friends during periods of absence. This could include scheduling regular check-ins, setting aside dedicated time for family activities when you're home, and using apps that allow for shared experiences, like watching a movie together online. For instance, you could plan a weekly family game night over a video call to stay engaged with your kids' lives.
- Start a "Life After the Limelight" workshop series in your loca ...
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Navigating Creativity and Longevity as an Artist
McTague, Williamson, and Gillespie address the complexities of staying true to one's artistic integrity while navigating commercial success, the influence of collaboration, and the persistent allure of early creative successes.
The Tension Between Commercial Success and Artistic Integrity
The struggle to balance commerce and art pervades the music industry. McTague reflects on the arbitrary nature of success in a field where less talented bands might gain fame, while more talented ones remain obscure. Chris Williamson and Tim McTague discuss the importance of quality over fear of failure. They explore the tension between commercial success and staying true to one's artistic vision, plus the risk of audience capture, where artists produce what their audience expects instead of following their true artistic impulses.
Chasing Trends vs. True Vision
The speakers grapple with the temptation to replicate previous successes. Aaron Gillespie notes how he once thought mimicking aspects of a successful album would guarantee future success but has since found fulfillment in creating music true to his experiences, regardless of popularity.
Maintaining Creative Inspiration and Passion Over Long Careers
Artists discuss how managing self-doubt and gauging success can fuel longevity in the industry. They stress the importance of being mindful of maintaining authenticity and resisting alignment with fleeting trends or external business pressures.
The Value of Democratic, Collaborative Decision-Making in Bands
Collaboration can be pivotal for creativity in bands, which both Gillespie and McTague acknowledge.
Advantages of Shared Ownership & Collective Input in Creativity
The discussion highlights the collaborative nature of bands like Paramore, which writes music together and values each member's contribution. Gillespie underscores Paramore's commitment to a collective vision, which resists external pressures to highlight individual members over the group.
Navigating Creative Differences and Protecting Vision
The speakers celebrate the democratic process within music bands, emphasizing shared decision-making, even in the face of creative differences. McTague and Gillespie reflect on resisting external business influences, ensuring that their music remains true to thei ...
Here’s what you’ll find in our full summary
Navigating Creativity and Longevity as an Artist
Additional Materials
Counterarguments
- Quality over fear of failure may not always be practical in an industry driven by financial imperatives and market demands.
- Staying true to one's experiences doesn't guarantee success or relevance in the music industry, which often requires adaptability and evolution.
- While collaboration is crucial, it can also lead to compromises that might dilute an artist's individual vision or lead to groupthink.
- Shared ownership and collective input can sometimes result in a lack of clear direction if not managed effectively.
- Democratic decision-making in bands can be inefficient and may not always lead to the best artistic outcomes.
- The desire to recapture the energy of early work might prevent artists from maturin ...
Actionables
- You can create a personal "Artistic Integrity Journal" where you document your creative process, noting when you feel you're compromising your vision for commercial success. This journal acts as a self-check mechanism, helping you to identify patterns and moments where you might be sacrificing your authenticity for external validation. For instance, if you're a writer, note down instances when you're tempted to follow a popular trend rather than your unique story idea.
- Start a "Creative Evolution Portfolio" to track your growth and changes over time. Include samples of your work from different periods and reflect on how your style or approach has evolved. This can be particularly enlightening for visual artists or designers who can visually compare their early and later works, gaining insight into their artistic journey and ensuring they're not just trying to recapture past glories but are genuinely evolving.
- Form a "Feedback Coll ...
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Finding Meaning and Fulfillment Beyond External Success
The Importance Of Cultivating Contentment and Gratitude
Tim McTague and Aaron Gillespie talk about the importance of appreciating what they have already accomplished instead of endlessly chasing more success and wealth. They highlight the significance of finding contentment in relationships and the dynamics within their band, Underoath.
Appreciating Privilege and Blessings in Challenges
McTague speaks about being raised with a Christian perspective that emphasizes humility and the idea that life isn't solely about oneself, but about contributing to the greater whole. He mentions feeling grateful for everything, regardless of its nature. Gillespie shares the story of his ex-father-in-law, who looks back at his music career with fulfillment and gratitude, displaying an appreciation for life's journey rather than regret over not "making it" big.
Embrace Simple Joys and Presence Over Constant Achievement Chasing
Gillespie discusses the notion of winning by finding peace in simple pleasures. He recalls a conversation where a good day was described as spending time with a friend’s wife, having cigars, and a simple meal. Gillespie and McTague emphasize the importance of decoupling from complexities and finding fulfillment in uncomplicated, peaceful experiences.
Redefining Success Beyond Material Wealth and Fame
Chris Williamson and Tim McTague question the value of measuring success through external metrics, suggesting that finding personal meaning in what one does is more important. Gillespie feels pressure when comparing his streaming numbers to other bands, which shows the challenge in appreciating his achievements independent of external validation.
From Validation to Growth and Contribution
McTague talks about how their band ended up being more successful than they ever intended, as they did not set out for it to become their careers. This realization leads to the notion that success should not be based solely on external achievements and that fulfillment should come from the present.
Purpose and Meaning in Relationships, Community, and Growth
The speakers discuss the loneliness that can come with personal development, contrasting it with the inherent community within their band. Gillespie and McTague reflect on finding purpose and meaning in the journey, relationships, and community built along the way, rather than the scale of success.
The Wisdom Of Embracing Impermanence and Non-attachment
Embracing Impermanence: Holding Achievements and Identity Lightly
McTague speaks to accepting the impermanence of things, suggesting that finding contentment in the moment rather than pursuing more achievements can alleviate the pressure ...
Here’s what you’ll find in our full summary
Finding Meaning and Fulfillment Beyond External Success
Additional Materials
Counterarguments
- While appreciating current accomplishments is important, ambition and the pursuit of success can also drive innovation and progress.
- Contentment in relationships and band dynamics is valuable, but personal and professional growth often requires stepping out of comfort zones and facing challenges.
- Gratitude in all circumstances is noble, but it's also important to acknowledge and address injustices or hardships that should be changed rather than simply accepted.
- Finding peace in simple pleasures is beneficial, but ambition and the desire for complex achievements can also be fulfilling and lead to personal growth.
- Questioning the measurement of success through external metrics is valid, but societal structures often require such measurements for practical purposes, such as career advancement and financial stability.
- Personal meaning in work is crucial, but external validation can also provide motivation and a sense of accomplishment that can enhance personal fulfillment.
- Emphasizing relationships and community is important, but individual achievements can also contribute to self-esteem and identity.
- Accepting impermanence is wise, but pla ...
Actionables
- You can create a "gratitude jar" where you write down daily accomplishments or moments of contentment on slips of paper and place them in the jar. This tangible practice helps you focus on the present and appreciate small victories, fostering a sense of fulfillment without the need for external validation. For example, jot down a pleasant conversation with a friend or a task completed at work, and read them at the end of the week to reflect on the positive aspects of your life.
- Start a "relationship investment" routine by setting aside time each week to connect with someone important to you without distractions. This could be a phone call, a coffee meet-up, or a walk in the park. The goal is to deepen personal relationships and find joy in the simple act of being with others, which can lead to a more meaningful and contented life.
- Implement a ...
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