#924 - William Costello - What Netflix’s “Adolescence” Got Wrong
In this episode of Modern Wisdom, William Costello and Chris Williamson critique the realism of the Netflix series "Adolescence," which portrays a young male perpetrating violence under the influence of the "manosphere." The hosts argue the show oversimplifies the complexities within incel communities, overlooking nuances like diverse racial and neurodivergent representation.
Moreover, they raise concerns that the fictional narrative could lead to unintended consequences, including inspiring violent acts through notoriety and prompting misguided policy responses. The discussion underscores the importance of understanding social media's role, mental health factors, and societal pressures that shape violence risk beyond fictional portrayals alone.
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1-Page Summary
Realism of "Manosphere-Inspired Violence" Portrayal
The show "Adolescence" depicts a tragic act of violence by a 13-year-old boy, Jamie, framed as resulting from influences of the "manosphere" and the pressures of meeting masculine societal expectations. However, some commentators argue the portrayal lacks realism and diverges from research on real "incel" communities.
Fictional Tragedy Diverges from Real-World Patterns
William Costello contends that the show's depiction of a well-behaved white teenager committing violence does not reflect real-life patterns. Chris Williamson notes the contrast between the show's narrative and the UK's knife crime epidemic which affects a different demographic.
Furthermore, Costello and Williamson argue the show's depiction of "manosphere" influence on Jamie oversimplifies and misrepresents the diversity and complexities within incel communities, such as high rates of autism, persons of color, and mental health struggles like suicidal ideation.
Potential Unintended Consequences
Distributing the show widely to UK students raises concerns. Costello and Williamson warn it could inspire violent behavior in already-vulnerable individuals by generating notoriety. They also criticize potential "blame and shame" tactics portrayed, suggesting these may backfire and entrench defensive attitudes.
Additionally, they argue policymakers rapidly endorsed the show despite a lack of research backing its efficacy or accuracy compared to evidence-based findings on such violence.
Nuances Within the "Incel" Community
Costello and Williamson argue the show oversimplifies the incel community by portraying Jamie as a "typical incel." They highlight nuances like a covert lexicon, presence of the "black pill" ideology, and diversity in race and neurodiversity that the show overlooks.
Social Media, Mental Health, and Societal Pressures
The hosts discuss how social media amplifies insecurities as depicted in Jamie's experiences. Williamson and Costello note pressures on young men to appear sexually successful, though research quantifying this is lacking according to Costello.
They suggest the "manosphere" focus overlooks broader mental health issues and societal pressures affecting violence risk. A holistic approach addressing mental health, social dynamics, and technology's complex role is proposed over rapid policymaking based on fictional narratives alone.
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Counterarguments
- The show may use artistic license to highlight issues in a dramatic way that can start important conversations about societal pressures and the dangers of toxic online communities.
- Real-life patterns of violence are complex and can involve individuals from any demographic, so the show's choice of character may be an attempt to challenge stereotypes.
- While the show might oversimplify the incel community, it could still raise awareness about the existence of such ideologies and the need for further research and understanding.
- The distribution of the show to students could be seen as an educational tool to prompt discussion and critical thinking about online influences and societal expectations.
- Policymakers' endorsement of the show might be based on its potential to engage with young audiences on relevant issues, even if it's not backed by specific research.
- The portrayal of Jamie as a "typical incel" could be a narrative device to represent a broader issue, rather than a detailed analysis of the incel community.
- The show's focus on the "manosphere" might be intended to address a specific aspect of societal influence without claiming to cover all factors related to violence risk.
- A fictional narrative can sometimes capture public interest and convey complex issues in a way that academic research may not, potentially leading to broader public engagement with the topics presented.
Actionables
- You can foster a more nuanced understanding of complex social issues by starting a book club focused on diverse narratives around masculinity and mental health. Choose books that explore different aspects of male identity, mental health struggles, and societal pressures, encouraging members to discuss and reflect on the multifaceted nature of these issues beyond the stereotypes often portrayed in media.
- Encourage critical thinking about media portrayals by organizing a virtual discussion group where participants analyze and deconstruct fictional narratives related to violence and societal pressures. Use a variety of media sources, such as TV shows, movies, and articles, to prompt discussions on how these narratives might oversimplify complex issues and what the potential real-world implications could be.
- Promote mental health awareness and support among your peers by creating a safe space, like a monthly meet-up or an online forum, where young men can openly discuss their insecurities and societal pressures without judgment. This initiative could include sharing resources, personal experiences, and strategies for coping with the pressures amplified by social media, aiming to build a supportive community that acknowledges and works through these challenges together.
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Realism of "Adolescence" Portraying "Manosphere-Inspired Violence"
"Adolescence" presents a narrative of a tragedy related to "manosphere-inspired violence," which has captured the attention of viewers for its nuanced portrayal of the lead-up to an act of violence by a young boy. However, the show's depiction raises questions about its realism and alignment with actual trends of such violence.
Plausible Narrative of a Tragedy Like the One Portrayed, but Not Accurately Indicative of Real-World "Manosphere-Inspired Violence"
The character Jamie in "Adolescence" is depicted not as a psychopathic killer but as a deeply insecure 13-year-old boy. The show suggests that his violent outburst results from being unable to meet societal expectations of masculinity, and it depicts his immersion in "manosphere" content as exacerbating these pressures. However, the show doesn't point to an explicit, direct cause emanating from the manosphere, instead framing his actions as the outcome of multiple converging factors.
13-year-Old White Boy Committing Violence Debunked, Unlike UK's Knife Crime Epidemic
William Costello highlights that "Adolescence" does not accurately represent the prevalence of "manosphere-inspired violence." He contends that there has not been an incident where a well-behaved, academically successful white teenager has committed violence mirroring the events in the show. Costello points out the stark contrast between the fictional portrayal and the real-life knife crime epidemic in the UK, which affects a different demographic and occurs in a different context.
S ...
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Realism of "Adolescence" Portraying "Manosphere-Inspired Violence"
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Counterarguments
- The show "Adolescence" may be using artistic license to explore themes and scenarios that, while not common, could still be possible in extreme cases.
- The character Jamie's actions, although not representative of a widespread trend, could be seen as a cautionary tale of what might happen in a worst-case scenario.
- The lack of a direct, real-world incident mirroring the show's events does not invalidate the potential for fiction to explore hypothetical situations.
- The show's emotional impact and reflection of societal fears might be valuable in sparking conversations about the potential dangers of toxic online subcultures.
- While the show may diverge from research on "incel" communities, it could still raise awareness about the broader issue of online radicalization.
- Fiction often dramatizes and exaggerates for effect, which can be a legitimate storytelling technique to engage audiences with complex issues.
- The show might be seen as a starting point for discussion rather than a definitive source of information on "manosphere-inspired violence."
- The depiction of "manosphere" influence, e ...
Actionables
- You can foster critical media literacy by analyzing TV shows and movies for their portrayal of societal issues, similar to how the podcast discussed "Adolescence." Start by selecting a popular show or film, watch it with a notebook in hand, and jot down instances where characters' behaviors are influenced by societal norms. Discuss these observations with friends or family to understand the impact of media on real-life perceptions and behaviors.
- Encourage open conversations with adolescents in your life about the pressures of societal expectations, using the character Jamie as a reference point. During casual discussions, bring up topics like the pressure to conform to gender roles or the influence of online content on self-image. This can help young people articulate their experiences and may provide insights into their online interactions and the content they consume.
- Create a personal "reality check" system when consuming ...
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Unintended Consequences Of Distributing the Show to Students
Distributing the Show To all Uk Students Is Concerning and Potentially Counterproductive
William Costello and Chris Williamson address serious concerns about a show potentially influencing policy and being widely distributed among students in the UK without sufficient research backing its efficacy or safety.
Show's Portrayal of Tragic Violence Could Inspire Rather Than Deter Those Inclined to Such Behavior
Costello and Williamson voice a cautionary stance on the show's portrayal of tragic violence. They suggest that instead of deterring individuals from unhealthy or violent behavior, it may inadvertently serve as inspiration for those already inclined to such actions due to the notoriety and attention it generates.
Costello expresses particular worry about interventions that spotlight certain issues, which might enhance their appeal to susceptible youths. He cautions against amplifying Manosphere topics, pointing out the danger of exposing a wide audience to such ideologies overnight and agreeing with the Institute for Male Supremacism's no notoriety protocol.
Fear That "Blame and Shame" Tactics May Backfire, Leading To Withdrawal and Resistance
The critics explain that the "blame and shame" tactics exemplified in the show could backfire, prompting individuals who are vulnerably positioned to recoil and show resistance to intervention. A petition to pull the show claims that such tactics are ineffective and could entrench defensive attitudes in those vulnerable to committing the crime depicted.
Policy Should Be Based On Research and Evidence, Not Emotional Responses to Fiction
Costello criticizes the rapid endorsement of the sh ...
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Unintended Consequences Of Distributing the Show to Students
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Counterarguments
- The show could serve as a valuable conversation starter, providing a platform for discussing difficult topics and promoting awareness among students.
- Fiction often reflects societal issues and can be a powerful tool for empathy and understanding, potentially leading to positive social change.
- The show's impact on students could be monitored and studied, allowing for evidence-based conclusions about its effects rather than preemptive censorship.
- The portrayal of tragic violence, when handled responsibly, can be a deterrent by showing the consequences of such actions rather than glorifying them.
- Exposure to challenging content, if accompanied by guided discussions and support, can help students develop critical thinking and resilience.
- Policymakers may have access to additional context or preliminary research not mentioned in the text, which could jus ...
Actionables
- You can foster critical thinking by starting a media literacy journal where you note down your reactions to shows and compare them with actual research on the topics presented. For instance, after watching an episode that deals with a social issue, take the time to research academic papers or credible sources on the subject and write a summary of how the show's portrayal aligns or diverges from the evidence.
- Encourage informed discussions by creating a book club-like group that focuses on analyzing the impact of popular media on public opinion. Each member could pick a show or a movie, research its themes, and present findings on how it might influence viewers differently. This could lead to deeper understanding and responsible consumption of media.
- Develop a habit of engaging with content responsibly by using a browser extension or app tha ...
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Nuances and Complexities of the "Incel" Community vs. the Protagonist
The Show's Portrayal of the Protagonist as a "Typical Incel" Oversimplifies and Misrepresents the Community's Diversity and Complexities
William Costello and Chris Williamson argue that a show's portrayal of the protagonist as a "typical incel" fails to capture the true diversity and complexity of the incel community. They criticize the series for perpetuating misleading stereotypes and for its misrepresentation of incels' beliefs and characteristics.
Hosts Argue That Portraying Incels as a Monolithic Group With a Clear Causal Link to the Protagonist's Actions Oversimplifies and Doesn't Reflect Nuanced Reality
The show, according to Costello, inaccurately suggests that incels have a covert emoji language, while in reality, incels have a hidden lexicon not recognized by the specific emojis mentioned by the show. Costello further points out that the character Jamie’s portrayal does not represent the diversity within the incel community, noting that 42% of incels in their US and UK sample were persons of color and roughly 30% had autism, aspects that the show does not address. Williamson observes that a character in the show depicted with characteristics often associated with autism hints at a more typical incel type, acknowledging the high autism rates among incels.
Williamson critiques the show for omitting the 'black pill' concept, which is central to incel ideology. Incels view the red pill with animosity and pity the blue pill, nuances that the show disregards. Costello and Williamson comment on audience reactions to portrayals of race within the show, tapping into discussions about the diversity in the incel community.
The show also disregards key elements such as mental health struggles and a high prevalence of suicidal thou ...
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Nuances and Complexities of the "Incel" Community vs. the Protagonist
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Counterarguments
- The portrayal of incels in the show may be intended to serve a narrative purpose rather than to provide a documentary-style representation of the community.
- Fiction often simplifies complex issues to make them more accessible and engaging to a broad audience.
- The show's creators might argue that they have artistic freedom to create characters and storylines that are not bound to accurately represent every aspect of a community.
- The use of a "typical incel" character could be a deliberate choice to explore specific themes or to create a character arc that resonates with viewers, even if it does not reflect the full diversity of the incel community.
- The omission of certain aspects of incel ideology, such as the 'black pill' concept, might be due to time constraints or the desire to focus on other elements of the story.
- The show may aim to highlight certain issues within the incel community, such as mental health struggles, without necessarily providing a comprehensive overview of all issues.
- The creators might have conducted research or consulted with experts to some extent, but chose to prioritize the story over strict adherence to the findings.
- The representation of race and autism within the incel community in the show could be based on the creators' interpretatio ...
Actionables
- You can deepen your understanding of complex communities by reading firsthand accounts and narratives from diverse members within those communities. Look for blogs, forums, or social media groups where individuals share their experiences. This will help you appreciate the nuances and avoid oversimplifying groups based on limited portrayals in media.
- Start a habit of questioning media representations by comparing them with academic research or expert analyses on the subject. When you encounter a portrayal of a group or community in a show or movie, take a moment to search for scholarly articles or reports that provide a more in-depth view. This practice will help you recognize when a narrative might be oversimplified or missing key elements.
- Encourage empathy and understanding by ...
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Social Media, Mental Health, and Related Social and Psychological Factors Contributing To the Show's Addressed Issues
Chris Williamson and William Costello dive into the nuanced conversations surrounding the impact of social media on mental health, particularly for young men, in the backdrop of a fictional show's narrative. They highlight how current societal and technological environments are amplifying certain insecurities and pressures.
Social Media's Impact on the Protagonist's Insecurities
Social media is portrayed as a significant factor in amplifying the protagonist, Jamie's, insecurities. Instances in the show, such as Jamie seeing hundreds of his classmates liking a comment that insults him, point to the detrimental effects social media can have on an individual’s self-concept and well-being. Williamson and Costello consider policy actions, like Australia's social media ban for under-16s, as potential approaches to mitigate such impacts on youth.
Pressure on Young Men to Appear Sexually Successful Needs More Research
The pressure faced by many young males to appear sexually successful is emphasized, a subject Williamson and Costello note leads to negative behaviors like the derogation of peers. Costello acknowledges the validity of these points raised in the show but also accentuates the shortage of quantified research studying the extent of this pressure on young men.
The show's narrative raises questions about societal expectations of masculinity, including sexual success, suggesting there's a need for a deeper examination of how societal norms affect young men’s mental health. Furthermore, bullying incidents, like the one where Jamie is labeled an incel by a female character, demonstrate the mental toll and the application of such labels beyond just associating with a certain ideology.
"Manosphere" Focus Overlooks Broader Mental Health and Societal Pressures
There is an inference in the discussion that while the "manosphere" is frequently spotlighted in current dialogues, it might not capture the full spectrum of mental health and societal pressures that are also at play. Costello intimates that broader mental health issues are somewhat eclipsed by the focus on "manosphere"-related content and that these issues are critical ...
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Social Media, Mental Health, and Related Social and Psychological Factors Contributing To the Show's Addressed Issues
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Counterarguments
- While social media can amplify insecurities, it also provides platforms for support, community building, and positive self-expression.
- A social media ban for under-16s could be seen as an infringement on personal freedoms and may not address the root causes of mental health issues.
- The pressure to appear sexually successful may not be unique to young men and could also affect other genders, necessitating a more inclusive research approach.
- The lack of quantified research on pressures faced by young men could be due to the difficulty in measuring subjective experiences and societal norms.
- Societal expectations of masculinity are complex and can vary widely across different cultures and communities, suggesting that a one-size-fits-all approach to examining their impact may not be appropriate.
- Labeling individuals as incels based on isolated incidents could oversimplify the issue and ignore the diverse reasons why someone might struggle with social connections.
- Discussions about the "manosphere" can bring attention to specific issues within that community that may not be as ...
Actionables
- You can create a personal media consumption plan to reduce exposure to negative influences by setting specific times for social media use and choosing platforms that align with positive self-image goals. For example, if you notice certain platforms trigger feelings of inadequacy, schedule your usage for once a day and focus on communities that promote mental well-being and realistic body images.
- Start a peer support chat group with friends to openly discuss pressures and challenges related to societal expectations, where members can share experiences and coping strategies. This could be a simple group on a messaging app where the focus is on providing a non-judgmental space to talk about feelings of pressure regarding sexual success or masculinity, and to support each other in overcoming these pressures.
- Engage in reflective journaling to better ...
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1-Page Summary- Realism of "Adolescence" Portraying "Manosphere-Inspired Violence"
- Unintended Consequences Of Distributing the Show to Students
- Nuances and Complexities of the "Incel" Community vs. the Protagonist
- Social Media, Mental Health, and Related Social and Psychological Factors Contributing To the Show's Addressed Issues
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