Podcasts > Modern Wisdom > #865 - Matthew Syed - How High Performers Build An Unbreakable Mindset

#865 - Matthew Syed - How High Performers Build An Unbreakable Mindset

By Chris Williamson

In this episode of the Modern Wisdom podcast, host Chris Williamson and guest Matthew Syed explore the psychology and mindset of high performers. They examine how embracing a growth mindset, which views failure as an opportunity for learning, fosters resilience and sustained improvement over time.

The discussion contrasts the growth mindset with a fixed mindset, where individuals avoid challenges to protect their self-image. Syed and Williamson delve into the deliberate practice, access to resources, and environmental factors that contribute to achieving mastery in any field. Additionally, they reflect on the cultural shift toward prioritizing instant gratification over long-term goals, drawing parallels to the decline of ancient civilizations like Rome.

#865 - Matthew Syed - How High Performers Build An Unbreakable Mindset

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#865 - Matthew Syed - How High Performers Build An Unbreakable Mindset

1-Page Summary

The Psychology and Mindset of High Performers

Growth Mindset and Resilience

Matthew Syed highlights how high performers embrace a growth mindset, viewing failure as an opportunity for learning rather than a fixed inability. Chris Williamson discusses the importance of resilience, where setbacks are seen as temporary challenges and focus is maintained on controllable factors for improvement.

Learning From Failure

Syed and Williamson stress that failure offers valuable feedback for refining one's approach if approached with the right mindset. Syed shares examples of using rejections to motivate persistence, like repeatedly submitting articles until one was published. Williamson notes the value of deliberately practicing new material in low-stakes environments to learn from failures.

Fixed vs. Growth Mindsets

Individuals with fixed mindsets avoid challenges to protect self-image, often resorting to self-handicapping by not preparing fully. Syed cites deliberately under-preparing as an excuse for potential failure.

In contrast, those with growth mindsets embrace challenges as means to develop skills. Syed reinvented his approach after declining in rankings, choosing to learn rather than accept a lack of innate ability. A growth mindset allows consistent improvement throughout careers.

Achieving Mastery

While natural talent aids mastery, Syed emphasizes deliberate practice over time is key, along with environmental factors like access to coaching and resources. He contends metrics like the "10,000 hour rule" oversimplify the requirements for expertise, which involve a confluence of abilities, practice, and opportunities.

Decline of Long-Term Thinking

Williamson and Syed observe Western societies increasingly favoring immediate gratification over deferred rewards, evident in rising debt, educational issues, and mental health struggles.

Syed traces this cultural shift to factors like diminishing religious values and rising entitlement. He compares modern Western complacency to ancient Rome, arguing dominant societies risk decadence by neglecting long-term planning for short-term benefits.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Self-handicapping is a strategy where individuals create obstacles or excuses to avoid putting in effort, in order to protect their self-esteem in case of failure. It can involve behaviors like not preparing adequately for a task or setting up barriers to success. This behavior is aimed at maintaining a positive self-image and can be observed in various settings, such as academics or the workplace. Self-handicapping is a common phenomenon seen across different cultures and is used to manage perceptions of competence and protect self-worth.
  • The 10,000-hour rule, popularized by Malcolm Gladwell in his book "Outliers," suggests that achieving mastery in a particular skill typically requires around 10,000 hours of deliberate practice. This concept emphasizes the importance of sustained effort and focused training over an extended period to excel in a specific domain. It is not a strict rule but rather a guideline to highlight the significant amount of practice often needed to reach expert levels in fields like music, sports, or other complex activities. The idea behind the rule is that consistent, purposeful practice is a key factor in becoming exceptionally skilled in a chosen area.
  • A "confluence of abilities" refers to the coming together or combination of various skills, talents, and capabilities that contribute to achieving expertise or mastery in a particular field. It suggests that mastery is not solely dependent on one single factor but rather on the synergy of different abilities working together. This concept emphasizes that expertise is often the result of a blend of skills, practice, opportunities, and other factors working in harmony. In essence, it underscores the idea that achieving mastery requires a diverse set of abilities and qualities to align effectively.
  • Dominant societies risk decadence when they prioritize short-term gains over long-term sustainability, potentially leading to a decline in values, productivity, and overall societal well-being. This concept suggests that a focus on immediate gratification without consideration for future consequences can erode the foundations of a successful and thriving society. Decadence in this context implies a state of moral, cultural, or societal decay resulting from a lack of foresight and investment in the future. By neglecting long-term planning and sustainable practices, societies may face challenges that could undermine their stability and progress over time.

Counterarguments

  • While a growth mindset is beneficial, it's important to recognize that not all failures can be attributed to a lack of effort or resilience; sometimes external factors or systemic issues play a significant role.
  • Resilience can sometimes lead to burnout if individuals do not balance their drive with self-care and realistic expectations.
  • Learning from failure is valuable, but it's also important to acknowledge that repeated failures can have diminishing returns and sometimes indicate a need for a change in direction.
  • Motivation from rejection can be powerful, but it's also essential to recognize when persistence might not be the most efficient or healthy path forward.
  • Deliberate practice in low-stakes environments is useful, but high-stakes experiences can also offer unique learning opportunities and pressures that shape performance.
  • While individuals with fixed mindsets might avoid challenges, it's also possible that they have a realistic understanding of their abilities and choose to focus on areas where they are more likely to succeed.
  • Embracing challenges is important, but so is the ability to recognize when a challenge is beyond one's current capabilities, which can prevent unnecessary failure and frustration.
  • The concept of deliberate practice is key to mastery, but innate talent and personal interests can also significantly influence one's ability to achieve mastery in a particular field.
  • Environmental factors do play a role in mastery, but individual agency and personal choices are also critical components of success.
  • The critique of Western societies for favoring immediate gratification may overlook the complexities of modern life, including economic pressures and the influence of technology on behavior.
  • The decline of long-term thinking attributed to diminishing religious values may be an oversimplification, as there are multiple factors, including technological advancements and economic systems, that influence societal trends.
  • Comparing modern Western societies to ancient Rome may not account for the vast differences in historical context, societal structures, and global interconnectedness that distinguish contemporary challenges from those of the past.

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#865 - Matthew Syed - How High Performers Build An Unbreakable Mindset

The psychology and mindset of high performers and resilient individuals

High performers and resilient individuals distinguish themselves not only through their skills but also through their mindset. Their ability to handle setbacks and their perspective on growth and challenges are central to their success.

High performers develop a growth mindset that embraces failure as an opportunity for learning and improvement, rather than a fixed mindset that sees failure as a reflection of innate inability.

Matthew Syed reflects on a moment when he failed during a speech due to a fixed mindset. Afterward, he decided to shift his perspective and adopt a growth mindset, which allowed him to look for ways to improve. He also discusses that in competitive environments such as sports, where only one can be at the top, high performers find value in the journey and personal growth, rather than just in winning.

Syed raises concerns about people who choose to coast through life or engage in "quiet quitting," suggesting that a more fulfilling life is achieved through passion and striving for excellence. He emphasizes the need to measure one’s growth mindset regularly to gain insights that are beneficial for personal development. This approach enables individuals to take risks, face challenges, and continuously develop their abilities.

Resilient individuals are able to bounce back from setbacks and turn failures into stepping stones for growth by seeing challenges as temporary and focusing on what they can control.

Syed underlines the importance of resilience by recounting his own experience at ...

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The psychology and mindset of high performers and resilient individuals

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Counterarguments

  • While a growth mindset is beneficial, it's important to acknowledge that not all failures provide clear learning opportunities, and some individuals may struggle to find the lesson in certain setbacks.
  • Valuing personal growth over winning can be a healthy perspective, but in some competitive environments, winning is a necessary measure of success and can't be overlooked.
  • Striving for excellence is admirable, but it's also important to recognize the value of balance and the potential for burnout if one is always pushing for peak performance.
  • Regularly measuring one's growth mindset might not always be practical or reflective of true personal development, which can be non-linear and difficult to quantify.
  • Resilience is key to bouncing back from setbacks, but it's also important to acknowledge that some individuals may need more support and resources to develop resilience, and it's not solely a matter of mindset.
  • Focusing on what one can control is a useful strategy, but it's also necessary to recognize systemic issues and external factors that can signifi ...

Actionables

  • You can create a "Setback Journal" to document and reflect on failures with a focus on learning. Start by writing down a recent setback, then list what you learned from it, how it can improve your approach, and what specific actions you can take next. This practice turns abstract growth mindset principles into concrete learning moments and action plans.
  • Develop a "Challenge Simulator" exercise where you role-play through a difficult scenario you might face. For example, if you're afraid of public speaking, simulate a speaking event with a small group of friends or family, treating any mistakes as learning opportunities. This helps build resilience by normalizing the experience of overcoming challenges in a controlled, supportive environment.
  • Initiate a "Control Circle" routine where you dra ...

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#865 - Matthew Syed - How High Performers Build An Unbreakable Mindset

The value of failure and how to learn from it

Chris Williamson and Matthew Syed delve into the concept of failure and the benefits it can bring if approached with an appropriate mindset.

Failure provides valuable learning opportunities if approached with the right mindset, as it allows people to identify weaknesses, gather feedback, and refine their approach.

In conversation with Matthew Syed, Chris Williamson speaks about the fascination with failure and the enhanced capacity for learning that can result from it. Syed suggests that treating life as a journey redefines how we perceive mistakes. Instead of seeing milestones as final destinations, it's healthier to treat them as staging posts that pave the way for future opportunities, implying that failure is merely a step in continuous development.

Williamson acknowledges the importance of the right mindset when dealing with failure, pointing out that the self-esteem movement may have inadvertently set young people up for greater devastation upon facing failure due to its emphasis on talents and easy successes.

Embracing failure and using it as motivation to improve, rather than seeing it as evidence of lacking ability, is key to long-term growth and success.

Syed recounts how he kept faxing articles to The Times until one was published, exemplifying the idea of using initial setbacks as fuel for persistence and improvement. Similarly, after being heckled during a speech, he chose to view it as a valuable opportunity to learn, subsequently joining Toastmasters to hone his public speaking skills. He reflects on the importance of viewing failure as a trial to learn from, rather than proof of inadequacy.

Deliberately seeking out opportunities to fail in low-stakes environments can help build resilience and the capacity to learn from mistakes.

Williamson shares that novice fighting taught him about resilience and that experimenting with new jokes in his performances—despite some failing to land—was part of the refining process of his craft. Consciously deciding to test new material in work-in-progress shows before a tour, Williamson risked potential failure in a controlled setting with the intention of improving his act.

Syed and Williamson highlight that learning to handle fa ...

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The value of failure and how to learn from it

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Clarifications

  • Toastmasters is an international organization focused on helping individuals improve their public speaking and leadership skills through practice, feedback, and structured programs. Members participate in meetings where they give speeches, receive evaluations, and take on various meeting roles to develop communication abilities in a supportive environment. Toastmasters clubs offer a structured curriculum, opportunities for impromptu speaking, and a supportive community to help individuals ...

Counterarguments

  • While failure can provide learning opportunities, not all failures result in positive outcomes or lessons learned; some can be purely detrimental without clear insights.
  • The idea that life should be treated as a journey with failures as staging posts may not resonate with everyone, as some individuals may find this perspective too optimistic or unrealistic in the face of significant setbacks.
  • Embracing failure as motivation to improve assumes that individuals have the psychological resilience to do so, which may not be the case for everyone, especially without adequate support systems.
  • Deliberately seeking out opportunities to fail might not always be practical or advisable in certain professional or personal contexts where the stakes are inherently high.
  • The concept of seeking low-risk environments to practice and fail might not be applicable in fields where failure has significant consequences, such as medicine or ...

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#865 - Matthew Syed - How High Performers Build An Unbreakable Mindset

The contrast between a fixed mindset and a growth mindset

Through the discussions of various individuals, the concept of mindsets, and specifically the contrast between a fixed and growth mindset, is explored, shedding light on how these attitudes shape our approach to life's challenges and opportunities for learning.

Individuals with a fixed mindset believe that their abilities and talents are static, leading them to avoid challenges and become defensive in the face of setbacks.

Matthew Syed mentions a psychological phenomenon called self-handicapping, where individuals with a fixed mindset may deliberately under-prepare or even engage in sabotaging behavior, like getting drunk the night before an exam, to have a built-in excuse for potential failures. This behavior is a way to protect their self-esteem, which hinges on maintaining an image of perfection. Syed observed this behavior in himself when he thought he lacked the talent for public speaking following an unsuccessful speech and Williamson talked about his own experience with self-handicapping during his teens, where he intentionally did not prepare for cricket to avoid the risk of failing and have a ready excuse for potential poor performance.

People with a fixed mindset often engage in self-handicapping behaviors, such as not preparing properly, in order to create excuses for potential failure and protect their self-image.

Syed describes an odd satisfaction that comes from not being given the opportunity to participate because it eliminates the possibility of public failure. Individuals with fixed mindsets often use these self-handicapping strategies as shields against the fear of not meeting their own or others' expectations.

In contrast, those with a growth mindset see abilities as malleable and view challenges as opportunities to develop their skills, leading them to embrace difficult tasks and learn from mistakes.

Contrasting the fixed mindset, Syed emphasizes that adopting a growth mindset transforms a person’s engagement with life’s challenges. Rather than seeing failure as evidence of a lack of innate talent, it's perceived as an opportunity to learn and improve. Syed illustrates this with his own journey, recounting how he needed to reinvent himself after a decline in his world table tennis rankings, viewing the setback not as a permanent failure but as a chance to develop his skills.

Adopting a growth mi ...

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The contrast between a fixed mindset and a growth mindset

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Self-handicapping behaviors are strategies where individuals create obstacles or excuses to protect their self-esteem from potential failure. This can involve actions like not preparing adequately for a task or engaging in behaviors that sabotage performance. Self-handicapping is a common behavior observed in various settings, such as academics and the workplace, where individuals may use it to manage their self-image in the face of challenges. The goal of self-handicapping is often to maintain a positive self-image by attributing any potential failure to external factors rather than internal abilities.
  • Mindset theory contrasts a fixed mindset, where abilities are seen as static, with a growth mindset, which views abilities as malleable. Individuals with a fixed mindset tend to avoid challenges and may engage in self-handicapping behaviors to protect their self-image. In contrast, those with a growth mindset embrace challenges as opportunities to learn and develop their skills, seeing setbacks as chances for improvement. Adopting a growth mindset involves believing in the potential for personal development and continuous learning.
  • Matthew Syed is a British author and journalist known for his work on the psychology of success and high performance. He has written books like "Bounce" and "Black Box Thinking," which delve into topics such as talent development and learning from failure. Syed often uses personal anecdotes and experiences to illustrate key concepts, emphasizing the importance of mindset and deliberate practice in achieving success. In his writings and talks, Syed shares how he transformed his own mindset from fixed to growth, high ...

Counterarguments

  • While a growth mindset is beneficial, it's important to recognize that not all abilities are equally malleable for everyone; some individuals may have limitations that make certain skills more challenging to develop.
  • The dichotomy between a fixed and growth mindset might be overly simplistic, as people can exhibit traits of both mindsets in different areas or at different times in their lives.
  • Emphasizing a growth mindset could inadvertently lead to the undervaluing of innate talents and the contributions of natural aptitude in certain fields.
  • The concept of a growth mindset may place excessive responsibility on the individual for their success or failure, potentially overlooking systemic issues and external factors that can influence outcomes.
  • The pressure to constantly embrace challenges and improve could lead to burnout or a sense of never being good enough, which can be detrimental to mental health.
  • The narrative a ...

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#865 - Matthew Syed - How High Performers Build An Unbreakable Mindset

The role of deliberate practice, talent, and environmental factors in achieving mastery

Matthew Syed provides insights into the intricate balance between deliberate practice, talent, and environmental factors required for achieving mastery in any domain, challenging simple notions such as the "10,000 hour rule."

Deliberate Practice and Environmental Influence on Mastery

Syed notes that while natural talent and genetic predispositions can be advantageous, the true key to mastering any skill lies in engaging in deliberate, effortful practice consistently over time. He shares his personal experience as a top table tennis player, revealing that although many assumed his skills were a natural gift, various environmental factors significantly influenced his success. Growing up on a street with a high concentration of top players, having access to practice facilities, and receiving quality coaching all played crucial roles.

This narrative illustrates that factors such as access to high-quality coaching, resources, and supportive environments are indispensable for individuals to fully benefit from deliberate practice and reach peak performance levels.

The Complexity of Achieving Expertise

The notion of the "10,000 hour rule" as a one-size-fits-all benchmark for attaining expertise is contested, with Syed highlighting that the specific amount of practice required can differ greatly between individuals and domains. He speaks about the preparation for the Olympics, which involved meticulous training and simulation of match conditions. This anecdote serves as an example of the sort of effortful and targeted practice that echoes the principles behind the deliberate practice theory.

Furthermore, Syed recalls how tackling the challenge of public speaking, another domain far removed from table tennis, required him to seek out practice opportunities such as joining Toastmasters. This enforced the importance of deliberate practice and embracing every chance to enhance one's skills.

Multi-Factorial Path to Mastery

Syed acknowl ...

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The role of deliberate practice, talent, and environmental factors in achieving mastery

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Counterarguments

  • The role of innate talent may be understated; some researchers argue that certain individuals have a natural predisposition that significantly accelerates their learning curve and potential for mastery.
  • The impact of deliberate practice might be overemphasized, as there are examples of individuals who achieve high levels of skill with less practice than others, suggesting that quality may be more important than quantity.
  • Environmental factors are not always within an individual's control, and emphasizing them might overlook the personal resilience and adaptability of those who succeed despite suboptimal conditions.
  • The variability in practice required for expertise could be influenced by the methods of practice and the efficiency of learning strategies, which are not solely dependent on the individual's effort.
  • The "10,000 hour rule" might still serve as a useful heuristic for some, providing a tangible goal for those seeking to master a skill, even if it is not universally applicable.
  • Targeted practice is essential, but there is also value in unstructured play and exploration, which can lead to creative breakthroughs and innovation in skill development.
  • Focusing on practice opportunities in different domains might dilute the intensity and focus needed to achieve mastery in one particular area.
  • The contribution of genetic traits to abilities might be ...

Actionables

  • You can track your practice sessions with a custom progress diary to visualize improvement and identify areas needing more focus. Start by creating a simple notebook or digital document where you log each practice session, including the duration, the specific skills worked on, and any feedback received. Over time, this will help you see patterns in your progress and adjust your practice strategies accordingly. For example, if you're learning guitar, note the chords or songs you practiced, the challenges you faced, and how you felt about the session.
  • Develop a personal skill-building project that incorporates practice in various domains to enhance overall mastery. Choose a project that requires skills from different areas, such as building a small piece of furniture, which involves woodworking, design, and possibly metalworking. This will encourage you to practice a range of skills and understand how different domains can contribute to overall success.
  • Partner with a peer for mutual coa ...

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#865 - Matthew Syed - How High Performers Build An Unbreakable Mindset

The decline of long-term thinking and deferred gratification in Western civilization

Recent observations indicate that Western societies are increasingly favoring short-term thinking and immediate gratification over long-term planning and deferred rewards, a trend that has significant consequences for economic growth, innovation, and the well-being of future generations.

Over the past several decades, Western societies have exhibited a growing tendency towards short-term thinking, immediate gratification, and a reluctance to make sacrifices for future benefits.

Chris Williamson recognizes the human need for validation and prestige, noting that people often opt for immediate success rather than taking risks for potential long-term benefits. This approach reflects a shift towards short-term thinking, where the allure of immediate rewards overrides the capacity for patience and future-oriented planning.

Matthew Syed details a substantial historical change in Western civilization concerning time preference and economic growth. He refers back to the Middle Ages, noting a gradual decrease in the interest rate in England, which reflected a society that valued long-term gains over immediate consumption. However, since around 1970, there has been a complete reversal, with society showing less patience and more focus on current consumption.

This shift in mindset is reflected in phenomena such as rising government deficits, increased personal debt, grade inflation, and a proliferation of mental health issues, all of which suggest a decline in the willingness to defer present consumption for long-term gains.

Syed highlights this shift through fiscal trends, noting that from 1670 to 1970, England typically ran deficits only during times of war but has since shifted to almost continuously operating at a deficit. This trend is reflected in the greater Western world, with political leaders often promising vast deficits without regard for future implications.

The trend towards prioritizing immediate rewards is further illustrated by the prevalence of grade inflation and the self-esteem movement in education, both of which may undermine resilience and devalue the achievements they intend to promote. Syed connects this to the mental health crisis, where immediate labeling and treatment may neglect long-term support.

The roots of this cultural shift may be traced to factors such as the decline in relig ...

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The decline of long-term thinking and deferred gratification in Western civilization

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Clarifications

  • Time preference, also known as time discounting or delay discounting, is the value individuals place on receiving a reward sooner rather than later. It reflects how people weigh immediate benefits against future gains. Factors like age, income, and risk tolerance can influence an individual's time preference. Different models like exponential, hyperbolic, and quasi-hyperbolic discounting help quantify these preferences.
  • From the Middle Ages to around 1970, there was a noted decrease in interest rates in England. This decline reflected a societal preference for long-term gains over immediate consumption. However, since around 1970, there has been a significant shift towards prioritizing immediate rewards over long-term benefits in Western societies.
  • From 1670 to 1970, England typically ran deficits only during times of war, reflecting a historical trend of fiscal responsibility during peacetime. This approach aimed to balance spending with revenue generation to maintain financial stability. However, since around 1970, there has been a shift towards more frequent deficits, indicating a departure from the previous fiscal norms. This change suggests a broader trend towards prioritizing immediate consumption over long-term financial sustainability.
  • Quantitative easing (QE) is a monetary policy tool used by central banks to stimulate the economy by purchasing financial assets like government bonds. It aims to increase the money supply, lower interest rates, and encourage lending and investment. QE is typically employed when traditional monetary policy tools, like adjusting interest rates, are no longer effective in boosting economic activity. This unconventional policy is often used during times of economic crisis or when interest rates are already near zero.
  • Psychological perspectives on immediate gains ...

Counterarguments

  • The perception of a decline in long-term thinking may be influenced by a bias towards negative news and a tendency to romanticize the past, ignoring that each era has its own challenges and approaches to planning and gratification.
  • The rise in government deficits and personal debt could also be attributed to economic complexities, such as the need for stimulus during economic downturns or the increased availability of credit, rather than a cultural shift towards short-termism.
  • The increase in mental health awareness and diagnoses may reflect better recognition and understanding of mental health issues rather than a direct consequence of a societal shift towards immediate gratification.
  • The argument that grade inflation is a result of a decline in long-term thinking could be countered by the idea that educational systems are adapting to a changing world, where traditional grading may not fully capture a student's abilities or potential.
  • The decline in religious and traditional values as a cause for short-term thinking could be challenged by the view that secularization and individualism can also foster long-term planning and responsibility, as individuals seek to create meaning and structure in their lives without religious or traditional frameworks.
  • The notion that consumerism inherently leads to short-term thinking could be contested by pointing out that consumer beha ...

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