#428 — Political Extremism
In this episode of Making Sense, Sam Harris and political commentator Jonah Goldberg examine Trump's potential second term and its implications for American politics. The discussion covers Trump's shift from performative politics to policy implementation, particularly in border control, while also addressing concerns about the erosion of political norms and the rise of post-truth politics.
The conversation explores how Trump's relationship with his base influences his decision-making, and how the Republican Party has evolved under his leadership. Harris and Goldberg also analyze the Democratic Party's challenges in crafting an effective response to Trump's political approach, including the party's internal tensions between moderate and progressive voices, and how specific controversies might affect both parties' electoral prospects.
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Trump's Policy and Approach in Second Term
Political commentator Jonah Goldberg acknowledges being surprised by Trump's second term, noting a shift from performative politics to substantial policy implementation. Goldberg admits that his initial skepticism about Trump's campaign promises was misplaced, particularly regarding border control, where Trump achieved "remarkably quick success." However, Goldberg expresses deep concern about the administration's dismissal of established norms and its systemic corruption, particularly in the appointment of loyalists and the implementation of loyalty tests.
Erosion of Norms & Rise of Post-Truth Politics
In their discussion, Sam Harris and Jonah Goldberg examine how current political trends prioritize narratives and power over truth. Goldberg sees Trump as the embodiment of this shift, pointing to the administration's complete rejection of traditional political virtues. Harris references La Rochefoucauld's concept that even hypocrisy pays homage to virtue, highlighting how Trump's approach marks a departure from this historical norm. Goldberg argues that Trump represents the pinnacle of postmodernism, where personal authenticity is valued above objective truth, enabling his supporters to dismiss established institutions and expertise.
Republican Party and Trump's Relationship With His Base
The Epstein controversy has revealed fractures within the MAGA movement, according to Goldberg, who notes that despite these challenges, Trump's inner circle remains largely loyal. Goldberg observes that Trump's fixation on his "extremely online ultra-mega" supporters, while not representative of the broader Republican base, significantly influences his handling of controversies. This dynamic demonstrates the fragility of a movement built on personality rather than shared principles.
The Challenges and Opportunities Facing the Democratic Party
Both Harris and Goldberg describe the Democratic Party as struggling to form an effective counter-narrative to Trump. While the party has seen the rise of progressive voices like Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Goldberg suggests this could harm their electoral prospects. The commentators identify the Epstein controversy as a potential opportunity for Democrats to weaken Trump's position, though they acknowledge the challenge of doing so without alienating his substantial base.
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Counterarguments
- While Trump may have shifted towards substantial policy implementation, critics argue that the quality and impact of these policies should be evaluated, not just their existence.
- The success in border control is debated, with some arguing that measures taken have been inhumane or have violated international laws regarding asylum seekers.
- Some argue that the administration's dismissal of norms is a necessary disruption to challenge a stagnant political system.
- It could be argued that prioritizing narratives over truth is not unique to the current political climate but has been a longstanding issue in politics.
- Others might contend that Trump's rejection of traditional political virtues is an exaggerated claim and that he adheres to certain conservative principles.
- The view that Trump represents the pinnacle of postmodernism could be contested by pointing out that postmodernism is a complex and multifaceted movement not easily attributed to a single individual's politics.
- The idea that personal authenticity is valued over objective truth could be seen as a broader cultural trend, not just limited to Trump or his supporters.
- The fractures within the MAGA movement might be interpreted as a sign of healthy debate and diversity of thought within the movement.
- Loyalty in Trump's inner circle could be defended as a sign of strong leadership and shared vision.
- Trump's focus on his online supporters could be seen as an effective use of modern communication channels to engage with a politically active segment of the electorate.
- The argument that a movement built on personality is fragile could be countered by historical examples where personal leadership has led to enduring political legacies.
- The Democratic Party's struggle to form a counter-narrative might be viewed as a period of ideological realignment and introspection that could strengthen the party in the long run.
- The rise of progressive voices within the Democratic Party could be seen as a necessary response to shifting public opinion and a demand for more substantial policy changes.
- The Epstein controversy's potential to weaken Trump's position might be seen as an overestimation of its impact on his core supporters.
- The challenge of addressing Trump's base without alienation could be reframed as an opportunity to engage in broader, more inclusive political discourse.
Actionables
- You can enhance your critical thinking by evaluating different sources of information on a controversial topic, such as border control, to understand the complexity of policy implementation. Start by reading articles from a variety of perspectives, including those that support and oppose the policy. Then, write a summary that includes the merits and drawbacks of each viewpoint to develop a more nuanced understanding of the issue.
- Develop your own narrative skills by creating a blog or vlog series that explores the impact of personality-driven movements on local community initiatives. Focus on interviewing community members who are involved in grassroots projects and ask them how the larger political climate has affected their work. Share these stories to highlight the importance of shared principles over individual personalities.
- Practice discerning authenticity by analyzing public figures' communication styles across different platforms. Choose a figure who is known for their strong online presence and compare their tweets, public speeches, and interview responses. Note the consistencies and discrepancies in their messaging to better understand how personal authenticity and objective truth can diverge in public discourse.
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Trump's Policy and Approach in Second Term
Political commentator Jonah Goldberg expresses his astonishment at the shift from President Trump's first to his second term in office, particularly noting the impactful substance and policy implementation that replaced the performative nature of the earlier administration.
Jonah Goldberg Was Surprised by the Substance and Policy Implementation in Trump's Second Term Compared To the Performative First Term
Goldberg candidly admits that his expectations for Trump not meeting his campaign promises were incorrect. He concedes that Trump has had a "remarkably quick success" in shutting down the border, surpassing his and others’ predictions. Goldberg suggests that President Trump's political acumen might have been underrated, as he believes Trump should capitalize more on this success.
Goldberg: Trump Effectively Controls Border and Immigration, Surpassing Campaign Promises
Goldberg acknowledges that Trump has been effective at controlling the border and immigration, which outstripped what he had promised during his campaigning. These actions have significantly altered the national conversation around immigration.
Goldberg Is Troubled by the Cavalier Disregard For Norms and Conduct Standards in the Trump Administration's Corruption
Despite the s ...
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Trump's Policy and Approach in Second Term
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Counterarguments
- The perception of substance and policy implementation in Trump's second term could be subjective, and what appears as effective to some may be seen as detrimental by others.
- Expectations regarding campaign promises are often based on political bias, and a change in perspective might reflect a broader shift in political alignment or priorities rather than a change in the administration's approach.
- The effectiveness of border control and immigration policies is a complex issue, and while some may view stricter measures as successful, others could argue that they have humanitarian or economic downsides.
- The national conversation around immigration is multifaceted, and changes to it can be attributed to various factors, not solely the actions of the Trump administration.
- Concerns about a disregard for norms and standards of conduct could be countered by the argument that such norms are not universally agreed upon and that the administration may be prioritizing different values or goals.
- T ...
Actionables
- You can enhance your critical thinking by comparing policy outcomes to campaign promises of various politicians. Start by selecting a politician and listing their key campaign promises. Over time, track their policy implementations and public statements to see how they align with those promises. This exercise will help you develop a nuanced understanding of political accountability and the complexities of governance.
- Develop a personal code of ethics to guide your decisions and behavior. Reflect on the values you find important, such as honesty, integrity, and respect for others. Write them down and think about how they apply to different areas of your life, such as work, social interactions, and personal goals. This will help you navigate situations with a clear sense of what you stand for, especially when faced with challenging decisions or when observing the actions of others.
- Practice evaluating the ...
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Erosion of Norms & Rise of Post-Truth Politics
Sam Harris and Jonah Goldberg discuss the trend of prioritizing narratives and power over truth, with Goldberg viewing Trump as a result of this phenomenon.
Goldberg Views Trump as the Result of Trends Prioritizing Feelings and Narratives Over Truth
Goldberg and Harris both contend that recent political trends across the spectrum are moving away from principled stands based on truths towards a grim focus on power, narratives, and smears.
Loss of "Tribute to Virtue" Enables Brazen, Anti-Liberal, Anti-Truth Politics, Undervaluing Consistency and Honesty
Goldberg criticizes the Trump administration’s rejection of the notion that leaders should at least feign nobility or uphold standards. By abandoning any pretense to ideals—a "tribute to virtue"—this disregard has birthed a blatantly anti-liberal and anti-truth brand of politics that overlooks consistency and honesty.
Sam Harris points to the reflections of La Rochefoucauld, who noted that hypocrisy pays homage to virtue, implying that even the act of pretending to virtues highlights their significance. Trump’s apparent rejection of any façade of upholding norms marks a departure from this tradition.
"Cult of Authenticity" Lets Trump Supporters Dismiss Institutions, Expertise, and Standards as Power Structures to Ignore
Goldberg surmises that Trump represents the climax of postmodernism, where authenticity is prized above upholding a standard of ...
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Erosion of Norms & Rise of Post-Truth Politics
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Counterarguments
- The prioritization of narratives over truth is not unique to Trump or recent politics; it has been a part of political strategies for centuries.
- Some argue that all politicians engage in some form of narrative-driven politics and that Trump is more transparent about it rather than being an outlier.
- The concept of a "tribute to virtue" may be idealistic and not reflective of the realpolitik that has often characterized political leadership.
- The idea that hypocrisy pays homage to virtue could be seen as excusing dishonest behavior by politicians, which some may argue should not be tolerated.
- Authenticity in politics could be viewed as a response to public fatigue with polished, insincere political personas, and not inherently anti-truth.
- Dismissing institutions and expertise can also be seen as a form of democratic skepticism, which is a legit ...
Actionables
- You can foster a culture of truth by starting a "Fact-Check Book Club" with friends or family, where each member brings a recent news story or social media post to discuss and investigate its accuracy together. This encourages critical thinking and the importance of truth over narrative.
- Encourage honesty and consistency in your daily interactions by creating a personal "Integrity Journal." Each day, write down instances where you either upheld your principles or noticed a conflict between your actions and your values. This self-reflection can help you identify areas for improvement and reinforce your commitment to principled stands.
- Counter the "cult of authenticity ...
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Republican Party and Trump's Relationship With His Base
Trump's Struggles With the Epstein Controversy Expose Cracks In MAGA as Some Cling to Conspiracy Theories
The Epstein controversy has put a spotlight on the fractures within the MAGA movement and Trump's hold on his base as conspiracy theories continue to thrive.
Incentives For Trump's Allies to Uphold the Epstein Narrative Reveal the Fragility of a Political Movement Centered On Personality Over Shared Principles
In discussing the deepening crisis Trump faces with his base, Sam Harris and Jonah Goldberg tackle the broader themes of conspiracy thinking and a movement built not on principles but personality. Goldberg couldn't name anyone in Trump's orbit who has fundamentally broken with him over the Epstein controversy, highlighting the problematic adherence to conspiracy narratives within Trump’s circle.
Trump's allies, deeply invested in these theories, are at crossroads where they face the uncomfortable dilemma of having to admit their wrongs or continue to endorse discredited ideas, underscoring the fragility of a movement where loyalty to an individual trumps shared principles. Goldberg observes that even figures like Charlie Kirk, who initially seemed resistant, repudiated their stance after facing pressure, revealing the dynamic under which Trump’s supporters operate.
Trump's Effort to Manage the Scandal Highlights His Fear Of Losing Narrative Control Among Supporters Preferring Sensationalism Over Truth
Goldberg reflects on the challenge Trump faces in managing the Epstein scandal, particularly because he's influenced by the "extremely online ultra-mega types," a vocal minority whose views don't always represent the broader GOP base. However, Trump, entranced by the sensationalism that marks this subset of his following, struggles to maintain narrative control, fearing the loss of t ...
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Republican Party and Trump's Relationship With His Base
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Actionables
- You can develop critical thinking by evaluating the sources of information you encounter daily, especially on social media, to discern between sensationalism and factual reporting. Start by checking the credibility of the source, looking for corroborating evidence from multiple reputable outlets, and considering the potential biases that may influence the narrative being presented. For example, when you read a politically charged story, cross-reference it with reports from sources across the political spectrum to get a more balanced view.
- Engage in conversations with peers from diverse political backgrounds to understand the spectrum of opinions within a political movement. This can be done through joining online forums or local community groups that encourage open dialogue. Approach these discussions with the intent to listen and learn, not to argue. This practice can help you see beyond the vocal minority and appreciate the complexity of political beliefs within a gr ...
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The Challenges and Opportunities Facing the Democratic Party
Political commentators discuss the challenging position the Democratic Party finds itself in the current political landscape, exhibiting a lack of coordinated strategy in countering Trump.
Goldberg: Democrats Feckless, Bewildered In Countering Trump Narrative
Goldberg expresses astonishment at the Democratic Party's apparent inability to form an effective counter-narrative to President Trump and his administration. He observed a "complete feckless confusion" that leaves the party seemingly directionless in its opposition.
The Party's Conflicting Directions: Rise of Progressives Like Sanders and AOC, Which Goldberg Sees As Harmful to Electoral Prospects
Sam Harris echoes Goldberg’s sentiment on the state of the Democratic Party, referring to it as feckless and bewildered in the face of Trump's prevailing narrative. Harris notes that before the controversy surrounding Jeffrey Epstein became a source of distress for Trump, there was little clarity on what the Democrats' strategy was, except for a noticeable direction led by progressives such as Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Goldberg believes that this progressive faction could be detrimental to the Democrats' chances of future political success ...
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The Challenges and Opportunities Facing the Democratic Party
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Counterarguments
- The Democratic Party may have a strategy that is not immediately apparent or is being developed behind the scenes, and what appears as a lack of coordination could be a deliberate tactic of decentralization to appeal to a broader range of voters.
- The perception of directionlessness could be a reflection of the party's big-tent philosophy, aiming to include diverse viewpoints and policies rather than a single, unified stance.
- The rise of progressives like Sanders and AOC represents a response to a significant portion of the electorate seeking more substantial changes in policy and governance, which could energize the base and bring in new voters.
- The progressive faction's influence on the Democratic Party could be seen as a healthy debate within the party, leading to more robust policy proposals and a clearer identity.
- The Epstein controversy, while a potential point of criticism against Trump, may not be central to the Democratic Party's strategy, as they might prefer to focus on policy and governance issues rather than personal scandals.
- Engaging ...
Actionables
- You can analyze political strategies by comparing them to a game of chess, where each move has long-term consequences. Think of a political party as a chess player who needs to think several moves ahead. To apply this, take a current political issue and map out potential "moves" and "counter-moves" that could be made by different parties. This exercise can help you understand the complexity of political strategy and the importance of coordination and foresight.
- Engage in conversations with people who have differing political views to practice finding common ground. For instance, if discussing the Jeffrey Epstein controversy, focus on the facts and shared values like justice and accountability, rather than partisan interpretations. This can help you develop skills in navigating sensitive topics without alienating others, which is a challenge political parties face.
- Create a personal "pol ...
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