#426 — How Bad Is It?
In this episode of Making Sense, Sam Harris and David Frum examine the impact of Trump's presidency on American institutions and international relations. Their discussion covers how Trump found ways to profit from his position, including using trade policies to advance his business interests abroad, and how his administration's actions affected U.S. diplomatic relationships and global standing.
The conversation also explores the expansion of immigration enforcement under Trump, particularly the growth of ICE and detention facilities, and its effects on Hispanic American communities. Frum provides insights into the nature of political tribalism in the U.S., discussing how personal experiences with Trump's policies might influence voter support, especially among Hispanic Americans who have traditionally aligned with Republican positions.
This is a preview of the Shortform summary of the Jul 23, 2025 episode of the Making Sense with Sam Harris
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1-Page Summary
Corruption and Self-Dealing by the Trump Administration
According to David Frum, corruption and self-dealing escalated during Trump's second term. Trump found new ways to profit from his presidency, including ventures in meme coins and international golf courses. Notably, Frum reveals that Trump used U.S. trade policy, including a 46% tariff on Vietnam, to pressure foreign governments into approving his business deals, such as a $1.5 billion golf course in Vietnam. These actions required foreign governments seeking U.S. favor to patronize Trump properties, damaging America's institutions and international standing.
Impact on U.S. Institutions, Alliances, and Global Standing
Sam Harris and David Frum discuss how Trump's immigration policies have strained American institutions, particularly through the expansion of detention camps and targeting of legal residents. Frum notes that ICE's rapid expansion, soon to exceed the size of the Marine Corps, raises concerns about law enforcement overreach. The administration's erratic trade policies and disregard for diplomatic norms have prompted U.S. allies to question American reliability and seek alternative power centers. Harris adds that Trump's unpredictability, often based on personal slights and flattery, has complicated global coordination.
Tribalism and Division in U.S. Politics
Despite these controversies, Frum explains that about 35% of voters remain loyal to Trump, driven more by tribal political identities than objective assessment of policies. However, Frum suggests that Trump's harsh immigration crackdown could erode Hispanic American support, particularly as families experience the direct impact of detention policies on non-criminal relatives. This personal connection to Trump's policies might cause Republican-leaning Hispanic voters to reconsider their support.
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Counterarguments
- The assertion of corruption and self-dealing could be countered by emphasizing the lack of formal charges or convictions related to these allegations.
- The involvement in meme coins and golf courses could be seen as legitimate business ventures that are unrelated to his presidential duties.
- The use of trade policy for personal gain could be challenged by highlighting the complexity of trade negotiations and the absence of direct evidence linking policy decisions to personal business interests.
- The claim that foreign governments were required to patronize Trump properties might be refuted by pointing out that such patronage could be coincidental or based on the properties' merits.
- The damage to America's institutions and international standing could be debated by citing instances where U.S. policy under Trump was effective or well-received by certain allies or sectors.
- The strain on American institutions due to immigration policies could be argued as a necessary measure for national security and the enforcement of existing laws.
- The expansion of detention camps might be defended as a response to an unprecedented surge in illegal immigration, necessitating increased capacity.
- Concerns about ICE's expansion could be met with the argument that a larger force is required to adequately enforce immigration laws and protect borders.
- The questioning of American reliability by allies could be countered by suggesting that Trump's policies encouraged other nations to contribute more to their own defense and international commitments.
- Trump's unpredictability in global coordination might be defended as a negotiation tactic that has, in some cases, led to better deals for the U.S.
- The loyalty of 35% of voters to Trump could be justified by pointing to satisfaction with certain policies or economic outcomes during his tenure.
- The potential erosion of Hispanic American support due to immigration policies could be countered by highlighting Trump's gains among Hispanic voters in certain areas, suggesting that his policies may not have the uniform negative impact suggested.
- The idea that families affected by detention policies might reconsider their support could be met with the argument that some may differentiate between legal and illegal residents and support stricter immigration enforcement.
Actionables
- You can enhance your critical thinking by researching the economic impact of political decisions on your local community. Start by looking at how changes in trade policies or immigration laws have affected job availability, prices of goods, and local businesses. This will give you a clearer picture of the broader implications of political actions and help you make more informed decisions as a voter or community member.
- Develop a habit of supporting ethical businesses by creating a personal policy to patronize companies that transparently oppose corruption and self-dealing. Make a list of local or online businesses that align with your values, and commit to purchasing from them whenever possible. This small change in your buying habits can contribute to a culture of corporate responsibility.
- Engage in community dialogues by initiating conversations with people who have different political views. Approach these discussions with the intent to understand their perspectives, especially on issues like immigration and trade policies. This can help bridge the divide created by tribal political identities and foster a more nuanced understanding of the impacts of such policies on real lives.
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Corruption and Self-Dealing by the Trump Administration
In a review of the Trump administration's practices, it's apparent that corruption and self-dealing not only persisted but escalated in Trump’s second term.
Corruption and Self-Enrichment by Trump and Associates Escalated In Second Term
According to Frum, in Trump's second term, instances of corruption were more pronounced than in the first term.
Trump Profited Through Presidency, Using Hotels, Meme Coins, and Foreign Deals
Trump apparently found new avenues to profit through his presidency, including engaging with meme coins and benefiting from his golf courses in locations such as Scotland and Vietnam. Frum states that the Trump family was involved in a deal to create a $1.5 billion golf course in Vietnam, and pressures were applied on the Vietnamese government through a 46% tariff to green-light this resort deal.
Trump Used US Trade and Foreign Policy For Personal Financial Gain, Like Imposing Tariffs to Force Foreign Governments to Use His Properties or Approving Business Deals
Frum indicates that Trump deployed US trade and foreign policy tactics to further his financial interests. By imposing tariffs or using other forms of leverage, he coerced foreign governments into using his properties or capitulating to his business interests. Frum also implies that after Trump's hotel in Vancou ...
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Corruption and Self-Dealing by the Trump Administration
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Counterarguments
- The claims of corruption and self-dealing need to be substantiated with concrete evidence and legal proceedings, as accusations alone do not constitute guilt.
- The profitability of Trump's businesses during his presidency could be coincidental and not necessarily a result of direct self-enrichment strategies.
- The involvement in the Vietnam golf course deal could be part of legitimate international business ventures unrelated to his position as president.
- The use of US trade and foreign policy for personal gain would be a serious allegation that requires thorough investigation and proof before being accepted as fact.
- The suggestion that Trump coerced foreign governments could be challenged by the lack of public evidence or testimony from foreign officials confirming such coercion.
- The damage to US institutions, alliances, and international standing co ...
Actionables
- You can become a more informed voter by researching the financial interests and business dealings of political candidates. Before casting your vote, look into the backgrounds of the candidates, focusing on their business affiliations and financial dealings to ensure they align with your expectations for ethical leadership. For example, use public databases and financial disclosure reports to check for potential conflicts of interest.
- You can support transparency in government by advocating for stronger conflict of interest laws. Write to your local representatives to express your concern about the potential for corruption and the need for robust legislation to prevent officials from profiting from their positions. Use social media platforms to raise awareness and encourage others to demand accountability.
- You can pr ...
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Impact of Trump's Policies on U.S. Institutions, Alliances, and Global Standing
Sam Harris and David Frum discuss the impact of President Trump's policies on U.S. institutions, alliances, and its global standing, noting a range of concerns from strained institutional capacities to compromised diplomatic relationships.
Trump's Chaotic, Ideological Immigration Policies Strain American Institutions and Relationships
Immigration Enforcement Expansion, Including Detention Camps and Targeting Legal Residents, Sparks Backlash and Alienates Key Voters
Harris and Frum describe Trump’s immigration crackdown as needlessly provocative and cruel. Frum speaks to the ruthlessly chaotic implementation of the policy, straining American institutions and relationships. Notably, various individuals, including Venezuelans granted temporary protected status, now find themselves without status and are subject to placement in camps. These detention capacities are not for those convicted of a crime, but rather for violations of status, a factor that has alienated key voters and sparked widespread backlash against Trump, hinting at political detriment for Trump and his followers.
David Frum explains that during Biden's administration, attitudes towards immigration had hardened but now they appear to be softening under Trump's rule. The rapid expansion of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), soon to be larger than the Marine Corps, generates concern over the escalation of a law enforcement agency and the potential risks entailed.
Trump's Erratic Trade Policy Eroded Trust, Complicating Global Coordination
The expansion of ICE and the trade wars from Trump's first term have set the stage for ongoing issues around trade policy. Harris contributes that Trump's unpredictability, personalized based on slights and flattery, may further complicate global coordination. Frum notes the failure of Trump’s trade policy to reassure investors or manage protectionist costs efficiently, suggesting that dysfunction and expense result from the attempt to protect every step of the industrial process.
Trump's Norm-Breaking Damages America's Global Reputation and Influence
Trump's Disregard for Diplomatic Norms Prompts US Allies to Question American Reliability, Seeking Alternative Power Centers
The unpredictability of Trump's foreign policy actions leads allies to question the stability and reliability of US international stance. David Frum underscores the damage to US alliances and reputation due to Trump’s hostility towards European allies and the questionable reliance on the US as a protective ally by Asian countries such as Vietnam, Indonesia, and India. This unpredictability necessitates other nations to hedge their bets, reassessing their reliance on the ...
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Impact of Trump's Policies on U.S. Institutions, Alliances, and Global Standing
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Counterarguments
- The immigration crackdown aimed to enforce existing laws and prioritize national security, which some argue is a government's primary responsibility.
- The expansion of ICE could be seen as a response to perceived inadequacies in immigration enforcement and a measure to uphold the rule of law.
- Some argue that Trump's trade policies, including tariffs, were intended to protect American industries and workers from unfair trade practices.
- Trump's unpredictability in trade could be viewed as a negotiation tactic designed to secure better deals for the United States.
- The questioning of American reliability by allies might encourage more equitable burden-sharing, with allies contributing more to their own defense.
- Seeking alternative power centers could lead to a more multipolar world where the U.S. is not overextended in its commitments.
- The approach to weapon sales could incentivize European nations to invest in their own defense capabilities, potentially leading to stronger individual and collective defense postures.
- Political instability is not unique to the Trump administration and can be a feature of democratic systems where power changes hands regularly.
- Engagin ...
Actionables
- You can foster a deeper understanding of global politics by following diverse international news sources to gain various perspectives on American foreign policy. By reading newspapers or following news outlets from different regions, such as Europe, Asia, and the Middle East, you'll get a sense of how US actions are perceived abroad. This can help you form a more nuanced view of international relations and understand the implications of policies like those mentioned.
- Engage in community discussions or online forums that focus on the impact of trade policies on local businesses. This will give you firsthand insight into how erratic trade policies affect the economy at the micro-level. You might discover how a local farmer is coping with tariff changes or how a small manufacturer is dealing with supply chain disruptions. These stories can provide a tangible sense of the broader economic narratives.
- Volunteer with or donate to organizations that promote democratic values and the rule of ...
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Tribalism and Division in U.S. Politics: Impact on Trump's Support
Despite controversies surrounding Donald Trump, a substantial portion of U.S. voters remains steadfastly loyal. This phenomenon reflects the depth of tribalism within the country's political landscape.
Despite Trump's Corruption and the Harm Caused by His Policies, 35% of Voters Remain Loyal, Driven More by Tribal Political Identities Than by Objective Assessments
Sam Harris and David Frum note that about 35% of voters support Trump no matter his actions. Frum explains that partisanship in U.S. politics is so intense that party loyalty often overrides policy issues in voting decisions. This dynamic allows leaders like Trump to be largely immune to criticism among their base, as any evidence contrary to their beliefs is often dismissed as "fake news."
Partisan Polarization in Us Shields Trump From Criticism, Dismissing Evidence As "Fake News"
The tribal nature of U.S. politics and the unwavering loyalty of Trump's core supporters illustrate how deep-rooted party allegiance can be. Harris acknowledges this "core 35%" of unmovable Trump supporters, while Frum outlines the history of political support, indicating that personal and group identities often trump objective assessments of policy when voters make their decisions.
Backlash Against Trump's Harsh Immigration Crackdown Could Erode Hispanic American Support
As the Impact of Trump's Policies Becomes Clear, Some Voters May Reconsider Their Support Due to Family Separations and Detention of Non-criminals
David Frum discusses the potential backlash against Tr ...
Here’s what you’ll find in our full summary
Tribalism and Division in U.S. Politics: Impact on Trump's Support
Additional Materials
Counterarguments
- Voter loyalty to Trump may not solely be due to tribalism; some voters may genuinely agree with his policies or prefer his leadership style over the alternatives.
- Dismissing evidence as "fake news" can sometimes stem from a distrust in media sources rather than blind partisanship.
- The concept of deep-rooted party allegiance could be an oversimplification; voters may have complex reasons for their support that extend beyond party lines.
- The potential erosion of Hispanic American support for Trump due to immigration policies may not be uniform, as the His ...
Actionables
- You can foster critical thinking by starting a "Fact-Check Friday" with friends or family where you collectively research and discuss the validity of political claims made during the week. This encourages a habit of questioning information and understanding the sources, rather than accepting statements at face value.
- Encourage empathy by sharing personal stories on social media that highlight the human impact of policies, such as immigration crackdowns, to humanize the statistics and foster a more nuanced view among your network.
- Create a per ...
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