Podcasts > Making Sense with Sam Harris > #414 — Strange Truths

#414 — Strange Truths

By Waking Up with Sam Harris

In this episode of Making Sense, physicist David Deutsch challenges conventional interpretations of quantum theory. Rather than viewing quantum mechanics as merely a computational tool, Deutsch presents the case for the Many-Worlds interpretation, which suggests that our universe is one of countless parallel universes where different versions of reality play out simultaneously.

The discussion explores how the Many-Worlds interpretation addresses fundamental questions about the nature of reality and existence. Deutsch explains why he believes this framework eliminates the need for concepts like wavefunction collapse and shares his journey from initial skepticism to accepting this interpretation of quantum mechanics. The conversation examines how this perspective changes our understanding of possibility and reality, as it positions our world as just one of many equally real universes in the multiverse.

Listen to the original

#414 — Strange Truths

This is a preview of the Shortform summary of the May 12, 2025 episode of the Making Sense with Sam Harris

Sign up for Shortform to access the whole episode summary along with additional materials like counterarguments and context.

#414 — Strange Truths

1-Page Summary

Issues With the "Interpretation" View of Quantum Theory

Physicist David Deutsch challenges the conventional view that quantum theory is merely a computational tool with multiple interpretations. He argues that separating the predictive and explanatory aspects of quantum theory makes neither independently testable, leading to uncertainty about the fundamental nature of reality.

The Many-Worlds Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics

Deutsch advocates for the "Many-Worlds" interpretation, originally proposed by Hugh Everett in the 1950s. This interpretation suggests that quantum theory describes a multiverse where countless parallel universes exist, each containing different versions of ourselves and our reality. Rather than accepting the traditional view that quantum events only become real upon observation, Deutsch argues that wavefunction collapse occurs through multiverse splitting, where multiple copies of an observer register different, equally real outcomes.

Philosophical and Ontological Implications

The Many-Worlds interpretation, according to Deutsch, eliminates the need for undefined concepts like "interpretation" and "collapse" in quantum theory. In this framework, everything physically possible happens somewhere in the multiverse, though with varying frequencies. This perspective fundamentally changes our understanding of possibility and reality, as our "actual" world holds no special status among the countless other worlds existing within the multiverse.

Speakers' Experiences and Perspectives

Deutsch shares his personal journey from skepticism to believing in the Many-Worlds interpretation, citing a pivotal conversation with Bryce DeWitt in Oxford. While acknowledging the resistance among some respected physicists to this interpretation, Deutsch maintains that accepting it requires a fundamental shift in how we understand existence itself, moving beyond just the mathematical framework to embrace its profound implications for reality.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • In quantum theory, the predictive aspect involves calculating the probabilities of different outcomes, while the explanatory aspect aims to describe the underlying mechanisms. When these aspects are separated, it becomes challenging to directly test the explanatory part because it often deals with abstract concepts that are not easily observable or measurable in experiments. This lack of testability for the explanatory side can lead to uncertainties about the true nature of reality as described by quantum theory.
  • In the Many-Worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics, wavefunction collapse is seen as the universe splitting into multiple branches, each representing a different outcome of a quantum event. This means that instead of a single outcome being chosen upon observation, all possible outcomes occur in separate branches of reality. This view suggests that every possible outcome of a quantum event actually happens in a different branch of the multiverse, leading to a proliferation of parallel universes.
  • In the Many-Worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics, it is proposed that when a quantum event occurs, the universe splits into multiple branches, each representing a different outcome. Each branch contains a version of the observer experiencing one of the possible outcomes, making all outcomes equally real within their respective branches. This idea challenges the traditional view that only one outcome becomes real upon observation, suggesting that all possible outcomes exist simultaneously in separate branches of the multiverse. This concept implies that every possible outcome of a quantum event actually occurs in a different branch of the multiverse, with each branch representing a distinct reality.
  • In the Many-Worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics, there is no need for the concept of wavefunction collapse, as all possible outcomes of a quantum event are realized in different branches of the multiverse simultaneously. This interpretation suggests that every possible outcome exists in a separate parallel universe, removing the need to interpret why a specific outcome occurs in our observed reality. By embracing the idea of a multiverse where all possibilities play out, the Many-Worlds interpretation sidesteps the need for subjective interpretations or collapses in quantum theory.
  • In the context of the Many-Worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics, the statement "everything physically possible happens somewhere in the multiverse" suggests that all potential outcomes of quantum events are realized in different parallel universes. This concept stems from the idea that every quantum possibility branches off into a separate reality within the multiverse. It implies that every conceivable variation or result of a quantum event exists in some parallel universe, contributing to the vast diversity of the multiverse. This perspective challenges the traditional notion of a single, unique reality by proposing a multitude of coexisting parallel worlds where different outcomes and possibilities unfold.
  • In the Many-Worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics, every possible outcome of a quantum event occurs in a separate parallel universe. This means that all potential realities exist simultaneously in different branches of the multiverse. Therefore, in this view, our world is not unique or special but is just one of the many equally real worlds within the larger multiverse. This challenges the traditional notion that our reality is the only true or significant one, suggesting a more expansive and inclusive understanding of existence.
  • David Deutsch's pivotal conversation with Bryce DeWitt in Oxford was significant because DeWitt was a prominent physicist known for his work on the Many-Worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics. This conversation may have played a crucial role in shaping Deutsch's understanding and acceptance of the Many-Worlds interpretation. DeWitt's insights and discussions could have provided Deutsch with a deeper insight into the philosophical and scientific implications of this interpretation. This encounter might have been a turning point for Deutsch in transitioning from skepticism to embracing the Many-Worlds view of quantum theory.

Counterarguments

  • The Many-Worlds interpretation is not the only interpretation that attempts to address the issues of wavefunction collapse and interpretation; alternatives like the Copenhagen interpretation, pilot-wave theories, and objective collapse theories also have their own merits and adherents.
  • The Many-Worlds interpretation, while it may eliminate the need for wavefunction collapse, introduces the concept of a potentially infinite number of universes, which some argue is an extravagant ontological commitment.
  • There is no direct empirical evidence for the existence of these parallel universes, making the Many-Worlds interpretation difficult to test or falsify, which is a key criterion for scientific theories.
  • The Many-Worlds interpretation does not necessarily provide a clearer understanding of quantum mechanics; for some, it raises more questions than it answers, particularly regarding the nature of probability and how it applies across multiple universes.
  • Some physicists argue that the Many-Worlds interpretation is less about providing a true picture of reality and more about providing a particular mathematical formalism to deal with quantum mechanics.
  • The notion that our world holds no special status among an infinite number of universes can be philosophically unsettling and counterintuitive, leading some to prefer interpretations that do not challenge our intuitions about reality so drastically.
  • The problem of probability in the Many-Worlds interpretation remains contentious, with debates on how to make sense of probabilities when all outcomes occur with certainty in some branch of the multiverse.
  • The Many-Worlds interpretation's implications for identity and individuality are philosophically controversial, as it suggests that there are countless versions of 'us' leading different lives in parallel universes.
  • Some critics argue that the Many-Worlds interpretation does not provide additional explanatory power over other interpretations because all interpretations make the same predictions for all experimental results.
  • The concept of a fundamental shift in understanding existence is a philosophical stance that may not be necessary for the practical application of quantum mechanics in technology and science.

Get access to the context and additional materials

So you can understand the full picture and form your own opinion.
Get access for free
#414 — Strange Truths

Issues With the "Interpretation" View of Quantum Theory

David Deutsch, a renowned physicist, is critical of the conventional stance that quantum theory is a mere computational instrument that supports multiple interpretations.

Quantum Theory Needs Interpretation For Meaning

Separating the Predictive From the Explanatory Makes Neither Testable on Its Own

Deutsch draws attention to the issue that arises when the predictive capacity of quantum theory is divorced from its explanatory aspect. This separation renders both the predictive and explanatory elements untestable independently. Within the scientific community, this separation prompts considerable debate and uncertainty about the fundamental nature of reality as depicted by quantum physics.

Deutsch Claims one True Quantum Theory Interpretation: Schrödinger & Everett, 1950s

"Many-Worlds" Interpretation Suggests Reality Is a Multiverse With Multiple Copies of Our Universe

Deutsch supports the "Many-Worlds" interpretation, originally proposed by Hugh Everett in the 1950s. This interpretation implies that rather than being an abstract mathematical construct with numerous interpr ...

Here’s what you’ll find in our full summary

Registered users get access to the Full Podcast Summary and Additional Materials. It’s easy and free!
Start your free trial today

Issues With the "Interpretation" View of Quantum Theory

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • In the context of quantum theory, the idea of it being a computational instrument with multiple interpretations means that the mathematical framework of quantum mechanics can predict outcomes but doesn't necessarily provide a single agreed-upon explanation for what is happening at a fundamental level. Different interpretations, like the Copenhagen interpretation or Many-Worlds interpretation, offer varying perspectives on the underlying reality of quantum phenomena. These interpretations attempt to make sense of the mathematical predictions of quantum theory in terms of how we understand the physical world, leading to debates and differing viewpoints among physicists.
  • The issue of separating the predictive and explanatory aspects of quantum theory arises when the theory's ability to predict outcomes is considered separately from its capacity to explain the underlying mechanisms. This separation can lead to challenges in testing and verifying the theory's predictions and explanations independently. By divorcing prediction from explanation, it becomes difficult to fully understand and validate the fundamental principles that govern quantum phenomena. This debate highlights the complexity of interpreting quantum theory and the ongoing quest to reconcile its predictive power with a coherent explanatory framework.
  • The "Many-Worlds" interpretation of quantum theory suggests that every quantum event creates multiple parallel universes, each representing a different outcome. This theory proposes that all possible outcomes of a quantum event actually occur in separate realities. It challenges the traditional view that quantum events are indeterminate until observed, suggesting instead that all potential outcomes exist simultaneously in different branches of the multiverse. This interpretation implies a vast and diverse multiverse where every quantum possibility manifests as a distinct reality.
  • In the context of the "Many-Worlds" interpretation of quantum theory, the idea of a multiverse with multiple copies of our universe suggests that every quantum event with multiple possible outcomes results in the creation of a new universe for each outcome. This theory proposes that all potential outcomes of quantum events actually occur in separate parallel universes, each branching off to accommodate a different result. This concept challenges the traditional view that quantum events lead to ...

Counterarguments

  • The "Many-Worlds" interpretation, while intriguing, is not the only interpretation of quantum mechanics, and other interpretations such as the Copenhagen interpretation, pilot-wave theory, or objective collapse theories also have significant support and can claim to offer explanatory power without requiring a multiverse.
  • The claim that separating the predictive and explanatory aspects of quantum theory makes them untestable may be contested by arguing that the predictive power of quantum theory is testable and has been confirmed to an extraordinary degree of accuracy, even if the explanatory aspect is more philosophical or interpretative in nature.
  • Some physicists argue that the "Many-Worlds" interpretation, despite being mathematically consistent with quantum theory, lacks empirical evidence for the existence of parallel universes, making it a less parsimonious choice compared to interpretations that do not multiply entities beyond necessity.
  • Critics of the "Many-Worlds" interpretation may point out that it leads to philosophical questions about the nature of reality and identity that are difficult to reconcile with our intuitive understanding of the world, and that these issues should not be dismissed lightly.
  • There is an ongoing debate about whether quantum theory actually requires an interpretation to be meaningful, or whether it can be viewed as a highly succ ...

Get access to the context and additional materials

So you can understand the full picture and form your own opinion.
Get access for free
#414 — Strange Truths

The Many-Worlds Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics

The Many-Worlds Interpretation (MWI) of quantum mechanics proposes a complex view of reality consisting of countless universes, each hosting an equally valid version of events.

"Wavefunction Collapse Caused by Multiverse Splitting, Not Observation"

David Deutsch argues against the traditional view of wavefunction collapse in quantum mechanics, which is often thought to occur due to observation. He criticizes the notion of attaching meaning to mathematical formalisms in physics through interpretation, insisting that meaning and formalism cannot be separated and should be tested together as part of the scientific theory.

Deutsch maintains that the reality described by quantum theory comprises a multitude of universes. In his view, rather than a wavefunction collapse caused by observation, multiple copies of an observer register different outcomes. These copies are as real as the observer's experience in any single universe.

Experiment Versions Lead To Copies Observing Distinct, Equally Real Outcomes

Based on Everett's quantum theory, David Deutsch posits that when an experiment takes place, many identical versions of the experimenter set up the experiment in parallel. These copies are identical up to the point where they observe the experiment's outcome. Upon this observation, the experimenter's interaction with the experimental subject causes a branching effect, resulting in the creation of separate copies. Each copy observes a unique, yet equally real outcome.

Many-Worlds Lacks Parsimony, but Deutsch Argues It Follows From Physics Laws

The Many-Worlds Interpretation has drawn criticism for its apparent lack of parsimony — a preference for the simplest e ...

Here’s what you’ll find in our full summary

Registered users get access to the Full Podcast Summary and Additional Materials. It’s easy and free!
Start your free trial today

The Many-Worlds Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • The Many-Worlds Interpretation (MWI) of quantum mechanics suggests that every possible outcome of a quantum event actually occurs in a separate universe. This theory posits that the universe branches into multiple parallel realities, each representing a different outcome of a quantum measurement. MWI challenges the traditional idea of wavefunction collapse and proposes that all possible outcomes exist simultaneously in different branches of the multiverse. This interpretation implies a vast and diverse multiverse where every quantum possibility is realized in a separate world.
  • Wavefunction collapse in quantum mechanics is a concept where the probabilistic "wavefunction" describing a quantum system collapses to a specific state upon measurement or observation. This collapse is a fundamental aspect of the traditional interpretation of quantum mechanics, indicating a transition from a range of possible states to a definite one. It is a point of contention in different interpretations of quantum theory, with the Many-Worlds Interpretation proposing an alternative explanation for the apparent collapse phenomenon.
  • Everett's quantum theory, also known as the Many-Worlds Interpretation (MWI), is a proposal in quantum mechanics that suggests the existence of multiple parallel universes. According to this theory, every possible outcome of a quantum event is realized in a separate universe, leading to a branching structure of reality. This interpretation challenges the traditional view of wavefunction collapse and observation in quantum mechanics, suggesting that instead of collapse, all possible outcomes occur in different branches of the multiverse simultaneously. Everett's theory implies that the universe constantly splits into multiple parallel realities, each representing a different outcome of quantum events.
  • Parsimony in the context of the Many-Worlds Interpretation (MWI) relates to the principle of preferring simpler explanations over more complex ones. Critics argue that MWI lacks parsimony due to its postulation of a vast number of parallel universes, which som ...

Counterarguments

  • The Many-Worlds Interpretation is not empirically verifiable; it does not currently offer a way to test the existence of these countless universes.
  • The concept of wavefunction collapse due to observation is supported by the Copenhagen interpretation, which remains one of the most widely taught and used interpretations of quantum mechanics.
  • The idea of multiple copies of an observer in different outcomes can be seen as metaphysical speculation without empirical evidence.
  • The Many-Worlds Interpretation's lack of parsimony can be criticized for not adhering to Occam's Razor, which suggests that simpler explanations are generally better.
  • The laws of physics as we understand them are based on observations in our own universe, and it is debatable whether they necessitate the existence of a mul ...

Get access to the context and additional materials

So you can understand the full picture and form your own opinion.
Get access for free
#414 — Strange Truths

Philosophical and Ontological Implications of the Many-Worlds Interpretation

Physicist David Deutsch discusses the unifying nature of the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics, examining its implications for traditional concepts in quantum theory and for our understanding of existence itself.

Many-Worlds View Removes Need For Undefined Concepts Like "Interpretation" and "Collapse" In Quantum Theory

Deutsch argues against the conventional division of quantum mechanics into mathematical formalism and interpretation. He posits a unified approach with the many-worlds view, claiming it removes the need for "interpretation" or the concept of “collapse” to make sense of quantum events.

According to Deutsch, the many-worlds view asserts that all possible physical events occur somewhere in the multiverse. This perspective eliminates the undefined concepts of "interpretation" and "collapse" in quantum theory. He further adds that, per the Everettian interpretation, there's no need for the wave function to collapse as many copies of observers exist in the multiverse and experience different outcomes.

Deutsch contends that everything physically possible, as dictated by the laws of physics, happens somewhere in the multiverse, though with differing frequencies.

Many-Worlds Alters Understanding of Possibility, Probability, and Reality

The "Actual" World Is Not Privileged Over Countless "Possible" Worlds Existing In Different Frequencies

Deutsch's interpretation alters our view of possibility, probability, and reality. The many-worlds interpretation implies that the "actual" world is not special or unique compared to the countless "possible" worlds existing within the multiverse.

He suggests th ...

Here’s what you’ll find in our full summary

Registered users get access to the Full Podcast Summary and Additional Materials. It’s easy and free!
Start your free trial today

Philosophical and Ontological Implications of the Many-Worlds Interpretation

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • The Many-Worlds Interpretation of quantum mechanics posits that all possible outcomes of a quantum event occur in separate, parallel universes. This theory suggests that the universe branches into multiple realities with every quantum decision. It challenges the traditional idea of wave function collapse and offers a way to explain quantum phenomena without the need for interpretation. The Many-Worlds Interpretation implies a vast multiverse where every conceivable outcome exists in a separate reality.
  • The Everettian interpretation, also known as the many-worlds interpretation (MWI), is a quantum mechanics interpretation that posits the existence of multiple parallel universes where all possible outcomes of quantum events are realized. This interpretation suggests that wave function collapse does not occur, and instead, all potential states coexist in separate branches of reality. Proposed by physicist Hugh Everett in 1957, MWI has gained prominence in quantum theory discussions and is considered alongside other interpretations like the Copenhagen interpretation and hidden variable theories. Quantum decoherence is often cited in modern versions of MWI to explain the appearance of wave function collapse.
  • Wave function collapse in quantum mechanics is the process where a system's superposition of states reduces to a single state upon measurement or interaction with the environment. This collapse is a key aspect of certain interpretations of quantum theory, like the Copenhagen interpretation, but is not present in others, such as the many-worlds interpretation. The collapse connects the quantum world to classical observations, marking a transition from potential outcomes to a definite result. It is a fundamental concept in understanding how quantum systems behave when observed or measured.
  • A multiverse is a hypothetical concept encompassing all possible universes, each with its own set of physical laws and constants. It suggests the existence of parallel realities where different events unfold, expanding the scope of what is considered to be part of reality. The multiverse theory is a speculative idea that has been discussed ...

Counterarguments

  • The many-worlds interpretation is not the only unifying approach to quantum mechanics; other interpretations, such as pilot-wave theory or objective collapse models, also aim to provide a coherent understanding without the need for multiple worlds.
  • The concept of "interpretation" in quantum mechanics is still relevant because it helps to provide conceptual clarity and understanding of the mathematical formalism, which can be inherently abstract and non-intuitive.
  • The many-worlds interpretation, while it may eliminate the need for wave function collapse, introduces other controversial concepts such as the existence of an infinite number of unseen and untestable universes.
  • The notion that all possible events actually occur in some universe within the multiverse is a metaphysical claim that cannot be empirically verified, which challenges the scientific requirement of testability.
  • The privileging of the "actual" world is a practical necessity for making sense of our experiences and for the application of science in our observable universe.
  • The interpretation of probability within the many-worlds framework can be counterintuitive and difficult to reconcile with the frequentist or Bayesian interpretations of probability used in other areas of science.
  • The many-worlds interpretation does not necessarily solve the problem of quantum measurement; it merely shifts the problem to the mechanism by which worlds "split" and how that process i ...

Get access to the context and additional materials

So you can understand the full picture and form your own opinion.
Get access for free
#414 — Strange Truths

Speakers' Experiences and Perspectives on Many-Worlds Interpretation

David Deutsch delves into the historical, intellectual journey of the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics and its implications for our understanding of reality.

Deutsch's Transition From Skepticism to Belief in Many Worlds

David Deutsch articulates his journey from being skeptical to embracing the many-worlds interpretation. The shift happened through a session of error correction in rational thinking, illustrating that, in his view, the many-worlds interpretation has outcompeted other interpretations in the scientific process.

Error Correction in Rational Thinking: Many-Worlds View Prevails

Deutsch's transformation into a proponent of the many-worlds view occurred during a critical conversation with Bryce DeWitt at a pizza place in Oxford. DeWitt convinced Deutsch by explaining that each copy of oneself in multiple universes would be asking the same questions about their identity, prompting Deutsch to reconsider his stance.

Deutsch On the Resistance and Skepticism Towards the Many-Worlds Interpretation Among Respected Physicists

Deutsch also addresses the resistance to embracing the many-worlds interpretation that exists among some respected physicists. He argues that to overcome such resistance, it is imperative for there to be a fundamental shift in how we understand concepts like possibility, probability, a ...

Here’s what you’ll find in our full summary

Registered users get access to the Full Podcast Summary and Additional Materials. It’s easy and free!
Start your free trial today

Speakers' Experiences and Perspectives on Many-Worlds Interpretation

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • The many-worlds interpretation, while a serious contender, is not the only interpretation that fits the mathematical formalism of quantum mechanics; interpretations such as the Copenhagen interpretation, pilot-wave theory, or objective collapse theories also have their proponents and fit the observed phenomena.
  • The transition from skepticism to belief in the many-worlds interpretation is subjective and may not be solely based on error correction in rational thinking but also on personal philosophical biases or preferences for certain types of explanations.
  • The scientific process involves not only theoretical elegance but also empirical adequacy and falsifiability; the many-worlds interpretation struggles with providing clear empirical tests that distinguish it from other interpretations.
  • The conversation with Bryce DeWitt, while pivotal for Deutsch, is anecdotal and may not constitute a rigorous argument for the many-worlds interpretation's superiority over other interpretations.
  • Resistance to the many-worlds interpretation may not solely be due to a lac ...

Actionables

  • You can enhance your decision-making by adopting a 'many-worlds' mindset when faced with choices. Imagine each option as a different world that could exist and consider the outcomes in each scenario. This mental exercise can help you evaluate possibilities more thoroughly and may lead to more innovative solutions. For example, if you're deciding between two job offers, envision one 'world' where you take the first job and another where you take the second, then explore the potential long-term impacts on your career and personal life in each 'world'.
  • Start a journal to track and analyze your own skepticism and changes in belief over time. Write down instances when you encounter new information that challenges your current beliefs, and document your thought process as you consider whether to accept, reject, or suspend judgment on this information. This practice can help you become more aware of your cognitive biases and improve your ability to update your beliefs based on evidence. For instance, if you learn about a new technology that seems implausible, journaling can help you work through your initial skepticism and assess the evidence objectively.
  • Engage in discussions with individuals who hold different pers ...

Get access to the context and additional materials

So you can understand the full picture and form your own opinion.
Get access for free

Create Summaries for anything on the web

Download the Shortform Chrome extension for your browser

Shortform Extension CTA