#409 — "More From Sam": Religion, Deportations, Douglas Murray vs. Rogan, & Bill Maher's Dinner with Trump
In this episode of the Making Sense with Sam Harris podcast, Sam Harris and guest Jaron Lowenstein reflect on the evolving role of religion and community in an increasingly secular society. Harris emphasizes responsible parenting in the digital age, advocating for strict limits on children's social media exposure. The discussion explores the ethical obligations of influential podcast hosts like Joe Rogan to fact-check guests and provide authoritative voices rather than fringe enthusiasts for high-stakes topics like public health.
Harris also examines the accountability of public figures like Elon Musk and Kanye West in amplifying potentially harmful rhetoric related to conspiracy theories and voter fraud. Harris is critical of the mainstream media's perceived failure to adequately challenge former President Donald Trump's rhetoric regarding the legitimacy of the 2020 U.S. presidential election results and its threat to electoral integrity.
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Parenting and Protecting Children In the Digital Age
Sam Harris discusses the importance of protecting children from potential harms of social media. He consciously limits his children's social media exposure until they are mature enough to handle the responsibilities. While Harris allows private social media use like Snapchat, his children do not engage with public-facing platforms.
Role of Religion and Community in Secular Society
As secularism rises in America, Jaron Lowenstein and Sam Harris note the decline of religion leaves a void in community and ritual. Harris believes traditional religious structures offered a sense of the sacred that secular activities like sports and entertainment lack. He has created the Waking Up digital platform as a secular alternative to provide community, contemplation, and ethics.
Podcast Hosts' Responsibilities and Free Speech Dynamics
Influential Podcast Hosts Like Joe Rogan Have Ethical Obligations
Harris criticizes Joe Rogan for allowing misinformation and conspiracy theories on his podcast without adequate fact-checking, suggesting Rogan has contributed to vaccine hesitancy. Harris differentiates between legal free speech and media platforms' content curation responsibilities.
Prioritize Experts Over Self-Taught Enthusiasts
Harris stresses relying on experts, not enthusiasts, for high-stakes issues. He warns that unqualified voices like Dave Rubin speaking authoritatively on complex topics without accountability can have serious consequences.
Public Figures' Reactions and Responsibility to Political Events
Harris Criticizes Elon Musk and Kanye West
Harris holds Elon Musk accountable for lying about voter fraud and selectively moderating content, accusing him of failing as a self-proclaimed free speech absolutist. He criticizes public figures like Musk for amplifying harmful conspiracies.
Harris Criticizes Media For Not Challenging Trump
Harris faults the media for not effectively pushing back against former President Trump's false rhetoric, especially claims of winning the 2020 election, which Harris says threatens electoral integrity and incites violence.
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Counterarguments
- While Harris limits his children's social media exposure, some argue that early exposure to social media can teach children digital literacy and how to navigate online spaces responsibly.
- Some believe that private social media platforms can also pose risks and that public platforms, if used correctly, can offer educational and social benefits.
- Others argue that secular communities can also foster a sense of the sacred through shared human experiences and values, without the need for religious structures.
- Alternative platforms like Waking Up may not fully replace the communal and ethical functions of traditional religion for all individuals, as some may find secular alternatives lacking in spiritual fulfillment.
- Critics of Harris's view on Joe Rogan might argue that Rogan's platform allows for a diversity of opinions and that listeners have the agency to critically assess the information presented.
- There is a debate about the extent of a podcast host's responsibility for guests' statements versus the value of open discourse and the audience's responsibility to think critically.
- Some advocate for a balance between expert opinion and lay enthusiasm, suggesting that enthusiasts can sometimes offer fresh perspectives or challenge established norms in productive ways.
- Regarding Elon Musk, some might argue that his actions are consistent with a complex approach to free speech and moderation, and that his statements on voter fraud reflect his personal beliefs.
- In the context of media and Trump, some might contend that the media did challenge Trump's rhetoric but that the effectiveness of such challenges is limited by the polarized media landscape and audience biases.
Actionables
- You can foster critical thinking by starting a book club focused on media literacy and the impact of misinformation. Gather a group of friends or community members to read and discuss books that explore the role of media in society, the psychology of belief, and the importance of expert opinions. This can help participants better understand the nuances of free speech versus responsible content curation and the consequences of misinformation.
- Encourage informed voting by creating a non-partisan voter guide that summarizes expert analyses on key issues. Research and compile information from credible sources on topics relevant to upcoming elections. Share this guide with your social network to help others make decisions based on expert insights rather than public figures' unsupported claims.
- Develop a personal policy for social media consumption that prioritizes mental well-being and informed discourse. Decide on specific times of day for checking social media, choose to follow accounts that provide well-researched and thoughtful content, and commit to verifying information before sharing it. This self-imposed guideline can help you engage with social media more responsibly and set an example for others in your circle.
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Parenting and Protecting Children In the Digital Age
Concerns about the mental well-being of young people have surfaced prominently, with figures like Scott Galloway and Jonathan Haidt suggesting that social media could be a significant negative influence.
Sam Harris and Wife Limit Children's Social Media Exposure
Sam Harris, in a conversation with Lowenstein, addresses the importance of protecting children from the potential harms of social media.
Harris Family Shields Children From Social Media Until They're Responsible
Harris has consciously kept his children off of public social media platforms to shield them until they are mature enough to handle the responsibilities that come with it. Harris mentions that necessity dictated his oldest child receive a smartphone in seventh grade, primarily for contact purposes.
Sam Harris On Shielding Children From Internet Algorithms
The Harris Children's Private Social Media Access Is Limited to Delay Exposure to Public-Facing Platforms
He further elaborates on parenting choices related to hones ...
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Parenting and Protecting Children In the Digital Age
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Counterarguments
- While shielding children from social media can protect them from certain harms, it may also limit their ability to navigate and understand digital environments that are integral to modern social interaction and professional environments.
- Total avoidance of public social media platforms might not be as effective as teaching children how to use these platforms responsibly and critically.
- Receiving a smartphone in seventh grade for contact purposes assumes that younger children cannot be taught responsible use of technology; some might argue that with proper guidance, younger children can also benefit from and handle the responsibility of a smartphone.
- Delaying exposure to public-facing platforms could potentially hinder the development of a child's digital literacy and their understanding of online privacy and security practices.
- An ethical parenting framework that includes digital exposure must balance protection with the development of autonomy and critical thinking skills, which can be fostered through moderated exposure to digital content.
- Watching YouTube and being exposed to its algorithm without engaging in public-facing social media might still expose children to many of the same risks, such as d ...
Actionables
- You can create a "technology timeline" for your children, outlining at what ages they'll be introduced to different devices and platforms. Start by listing age-appropriate technologies and the maturity milestones your children should reach before gaining access to each. For example, they might get a basic phone for calls at age 12, but only get access to a smartphone with social media capabilities at 16.
- Develop a family media plan that includes agreed-upon rules for online behavior, screen time, and privacy settings. Sit down with your children to discuss the importance of each rule and how it protects their well-being. For instance, you might decide together that any new app must be discussed before it's downloaded, or that screen time ends two hours before bedtime.
- Encourage creative online engag ...
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Role of Religion and Community in Secular Society
As secularism rises in America, Jaron Lowenstein and Sam Harris discuss the consequences of the decline of religion and the search for modern alternatives to traditional community structures.
Decline of Religion and Rise of Secularism in America Leave a Void in Community and Ritual
Lowenstein notes Scott Galloway's concerns for young men's well-being and Jonathan Haidt’s concerns for teenagers, particularly girls, especially in relation to the impacts of social media. Within this context, he questions whether the erosion of religion contributes to these issues.
Secular Culture Lacks Traditional Community, Contemplation, and Ethics Institutions
Sam Harris, acknowledging the trend towards secularism, believes that secular culture lacks the sense of the sacred that religious institutions traditionally provide. He observes that while secular activities exist, such as sports and entertainment, they do not replace the community, contemplative life, or ethical guidance that religion has offered, pointing out the difference between a community gathering at a religious institution and these alternatives.
Sam Harris Offers a Secular Alternative With the Waking Up Platform
Harris has responded to the cultural void left by the decline of religious communities with a digital initiative: the Waking Up platform aims to provide a sense of community, contemplation, and ethics in the digital space.
Loss of Traditional Re ...
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Role of Religion and Community in Secular Society
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Counterarguments
- The decline of religion does not necessarily leave a void; some argue that secular societies can find community and purpose through other means such as civic engagement, volunteerism, and shared interests.
- The issues faced by young people, including the impacts of social media, may not be directly related to the erosion of religion but rather to broader societal and technological changes.
- Secular culture can offer its own forms of community, contemplation, and ethics through philosophy, humanism, and other non-religious ethical systems.
- Sports, entertainment, and other secular activities can foster a sense of community and shared experience that is meaningful and fulfilling for many individuals.
- Digital platforms like Waking Up may not be able to fully replicate the communal and ethical functions of traditional religious institutions for everyone.
- The need for belonging and purpose can be met through a variety of secular organizations and communities, not just digital initiatives.
- Some argue that the decline of traditional religious structures can lead to a more open a ...
Actionables
- You can create a digital book club focused on ethical and philosophical texts to foster a sense of community and contemplation. Start by inviting friends or acquaintances who share an interest in exploring life's big questions. Use social media or community forums to expand your group. Set a regular schedule for discussions, which can be held via video calls, and select a range of books that provoke thoughtful discussion on ethics and personal growth.
- Develop a personal ritual routine that incorporates elements of mindfulness and self-reflection to fill the void left by traditional religious practices. Begin by setting aside a specific time each day or week for this purpose. Your ritual could include journaling your thoughts, meditating, or engaging in a creative activity like painting or writing poetry that allows for contemplation and self-expression.
- Volunteer for a cause that align ...
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Podcast Hosts' Responsibilities and Free Speech Dynamics
Sam Harris delves into the complexities surrounding the responsibilities of podcast hosts like Joe Rogan, and the misunderstandings related to free speech and content curation on media platforms.
Influential Podcast Hosts Like Joe Rogan Have Ethical Obligations
Harris discusses the ethical responsibilities that come with the platform and influence a podcast host carries. He differentiates between the right to free speech protected by the First Amendment and the responsibilities that content creators have when it comes to the dissemination of information.
Rogan and Others Provide Platforms for Dangerous Misinformation and Conspiracy Theories Without Adequate Fact-Checking
Harris is forthright in his criticism of Joe Rogan for allowing the spread of misinformation on his podcast, suggesting that Rogan’s failure to fact-check has contributed to vaccine hesitancy and potentially to hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths. He mentions Rogan's lack of ethical diligence in conversations with figures like Donald Trump and RFK Jr. and expresses concern over the amplification of COVID-19 vaccine conspiracies.
Legal Free Speech vs. Media Platforms' Content Curation Responsibilities Often Misunderstood
Harris explains that the First Amendment's protection of free speech does not require media platforms to curate content in any particular way or to amplify all ideas. He elaborates that content moderation is a distinct issue from the political right to free expression, and even platforms known for minimal moderation like 4chan must engage in content curation decisions.
Prioritize Experts Over Self-Taught Enthusiasts In High-Stakes Discussions
Harris stresses the importance of relying on individuals with formal expertise, especially for topics with significant consequences. He uses examples, such as Brett Weinstein's discussions on [restricted term], to illuminate the dangers of non-experts leading conversations on complex issues, noting that authentic expertise is crucial to steer discussions and investigations correctly.
Unqualified Voices on Important Issues Can Have Serious Consequences
Harri ...
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Podcast Hosts' Responsibilities and Free Speech Dynamics
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Counterarguments
- Ethical obligations can be subjective, and what constitutes responsible dissemination of information may vary among different audiences and cultural contexts.
- The responsibility to fact-check can be shared between content creators and consumers, who also have the agency to critically evaluate and research the information they consume.
- The definition of "dangerous misinformation" can be contentious, and there may be legitimate debates about what constitutes misinformation versus alternative viewpoints.
- While prioritizing experts is generally prudent, there can be value in hearing diverse perspectives, including those of well-informed laypeople or individuals with practical experience.
- The concept of "qualified" can be fluid; some self-taught individuals may offer valuable insights based on extensive personal research or experience.
- Free speech includes the right to challenge and question established narratives, which can sometimes lead to the uncovering of truths that were not initially recognized by experts.
- Content curation by media platforms can sometimes lead to accusations of bias or censorship, and there is a debate about the balance between mo ...
Actionables
- You can develop a personal content evaluation checklist to discern credible information when consuming media. Create a simple list of questions to ask yourself about the source, the evidence presented, and the qualifications of the speaker. For example, before trusting a piece of information, check if the source is recognized in their field, if the claims are supported by data, and if there's a consensus among other experts on the topic.
- Start a habit of cross-referencing information with multiple sources to build a well-rounded understanding of topics. Whenever you come across a significant claim or theory, look it up on different platforms and media outlets. This could mean comparing articles from established news organizations, reading peer-reviewed journals, or even checking fact-checking websites to see if the information holds up from multiple angles.
- Engage in c ...
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Public Figures' Reactions and Responsibility to Political Events and Figures
Sam Harris Criticizes Elon Musk and Kanye West For Spreading Misinformation
Sam Harris holds public figures, including Elon Musk and, by implication, Kanye West, to account for their influence on public discourse, particularly when it comes to spreading misinformation.
Harris on Responsibility: Use Influence Wisely, Avoid Amplifying Harmful Conspiracies
Harris portrays Elon Musk as someone who once was a friend but has now lost his way, even comparing his harmful cultural impact to that of Donald Trump. Harris accuses Musk of lying about voting irregularities and fraud, calling his actions dreadful. He criticizes Musk for falsely claiming to be a free speech absolutist, while Musk actually engages in selective content moderation, often favoring certain content while banning journalists and others he disagrees with. Furthermore, Harris denounces Musk for his compliance with authoritarian governments in censoring political dissent. Harris emphasizes that individuals like Musk who wield significant influence have a responsibility to avoid amplifying harmful conspiracies and misinformation, and he stresses the importance of using one's influence wisely.
Harris Criticizes Media For Not Challenging Trump's Rhetoric
Not directly mentioned in the transcript but certainly implied, Harris casts a critical eye on the media for their handling of political figures like Donald Trump, especially when it comes to challenging false narratives.
Platforming Trump and Other "Big Lie" Promoters Fuels Political Instability and Violence Threats
Harris describes a landscape where even his friends who voted for Trump struggle to defend Trumpism, with defenses often amounting to dishonesty or delusion. He coins the term "4D chess people" for Trump defenders, suggesting they either look away or adopt a "wait and see" attitude rather than confront the issues directly. The media's failure to ...
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Public Figures' Reactions and Responsibility to Political Events and Figures
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Counterarguments
- Public figures like Elon Musk may argue that their actions are in pursuit of a broader definition of free speech, and that content moderation is a complex issue that sometimes requires difficult decisions to balance free expression with the prevention of harm.
- Some may argue that Elon Musk's engagement with authoritarian governments could be a strategic necessity for operating businesses globally, rather than a straightforward endorsement of censorship.
- It could be argued that the media's approach to covering figures like Donald Trump is a reflection of the challenge in balancing the need for objective reporting with the responsibility to fact-check and counter misinformation.
- There may be a perspective that the media has a duty to report on the statements and actions of public figures like Trump, regardless of their veracity, to keep the public informed about what influential individuals are saying and doing.
- Some podcast hosts and media figures might defend their approach by stating that they provide a platform for a range of opinions and that it is up to the audience to critically evaluate the information presented.
- Regarding the spread of misinformation, there could be an argument that the responsibility also lies with the audience to seek out diverse sources of information and engage in critical thinking to form their own opinions.
- Others might cont ...
Actionables
- You can enhance your critical thinking by starting a "fact-check journal" where you record claims made by influential figures and track down their veracity using reputable sources. This practice not only sharpens your ability to discern truth from misinformation but also makes you a more informed participant in public discourse. For example, when you come across a bold statement on social media, note it down, research it, and document the sources that support or refute it.
- Develop a habit of engaging in constructive conversations by initiating discussions with friends or family where you collectively analyze the statements of public figures. Approach these discussions with the intent to understand different perspectives and challenge assertions respectfully. For instance, if a topic arises about a recent claim made by a celebrity or politician, use it as an opportunity to dissect the claim together, looking at evidence and considering the broader implications.
- Create a personal "influence policy" for ...
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