Podcasts > Making Sense with Sam Harris > #406 — The Legacy of Christianity

#406 — The Legacy of Christianity

By Waking Up with Sam Harris

In this episode of Making Sense with Sam Harris, Sam and author Tom Holland explore the complex origins and legacy of Christianity. They trace how this faith system absorbed diverse traditions, from Hebrew scripture to Greek philosophy and Persian dualism, and examine the crucial role of the Roman Empire in disseminating its teachings.

The conversation delves into the paradox of crucifixion, a symbol of failure that became a sacred emblem reshaping ethical views. Sam and Tom also discuss Christianity's profound influence on Western secular morality, contrasting its ethics emphasizing moral value in weakness and suffering with the ancient celebration of strength and power.

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#406 — The Legacy of Christianity

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#406 — The Legacy of Christianity

1-Page Summary

The Diverse Origins of Christianity

According to Tom Holland, early Christianity was shaped by a blend of Hebrew scripture, Greek philosophy, and Persian dualism. The early Christian movement absorbed many traditions prominent in the Mediterranean at the time.

The Roman Empire's Role in Spreading Christianity

Holland explains that the Roman Empire's ambition for universality and its extensive infrastructure facilitated Christianity's widespread dissemination. He also notes the paradox between the Roman concept of deification reflecting worldly success and Jesus's crucifixion, initially a symbol of failure but later reframed as spiritually uplifting.

The Paradox of the Crucifixion

Sam Harris and Holland discuss the central paradox of Christianity: the veneration of the crucifixion, a horrific and shameful form of execution. Over centuries, crucifixion transformed from a symbol of utter failure into a sacred emblem, reshaping ethical views on weakness and power in contrast with the ancient Greek/Roman "might makes right" perspective.

Christianity's Influence on Western Secularism

Harris introduces the idea that even secular moral values have been deeply shaped by Christian ethics, noting that many seculars may not recognize this influence. Holland traces the modern division between religious and secular realms back to the 11th-century "Papal Revolution" within Latin Christendom.

Contrast with Ancient Ethics

Harris and Holland highlight the stark contrast between Christian ethics emphasizing moral value in weakness and suffering, versus the ancient Greek/Roman celebration of strength, power and conquest. Despite initial fascination with ancient civilizations, Holland realized his moral intuitions aligned more with the Christian tradition's ethics.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • While early Christianity was influenced by Hebrew scripture, Greek philosophy, and Persian dualism, some scholars argue that its core tenets are rooted primarily in the unique teachings and life of Jesus Christ, which may not be directly comparable to other traditions.
  • The spread of Christianity within the Roman Empire was not solely due to the empire's infrastructure and ambition; it also involved the active missionary work of early Christians, the appeal of Christian teachings, and sometimes the strategic conversions of key figures, such as Emperor Constantine.
  • The transformation of the crucifixion from a symbol of failure to a sacred emblem may also be seen as a reflection of the Christian belief in resurrection and redemption, rather than just a shift in ethical views on power and weakness.
  • The influence of Christianity on Western secularism is a complex issue, and some argue that secular moral values have also been shaped by Enlightenment thought, humanism, and other non-religious philosophical movements.
  • The division between religious and secular realms predates the 11th-century "Papal Revolution," with roots in the early Christian distinction between "God's kingdom" and earthly kingdoms, as well as in the philosophical separation of spiritual and temporal matters in other cultures.
  • While Christian ethics do emphasize the moral value of weakness and suffering, this is not universally accepted within all Christian traditions, and some emphasize triumph over suffering, divine health and prosperity, or other interpretations of strength through faith.

Actionables

  • Explore the roots of your own beliefs by researching the historical influences behind them, much like how Christianity was shaped by various traditions. For example, if you were raised with a particular set of values, look into the cultural, philosophical, and religious origins that may have contributed to them. This can help you understand the complexity of your own worldview and appreciate the diversity within it.
  • Reflect on the concept of power and weakness in your personal life by journaling instances where you've seen strength in vulnerability. This could involve writing about times when admitting a mistake led to growth or when someone's humility had a positive impact on you. By doing this, you can cultivate a deeper appreciation for the moral values that celebrate weakness as a form of strength.
  • Identify and challenge secular values in your daily life that may have been influenced by Christian ethics. Start by listing out moral principles you follow that are considered secular, such as honesty or compassion, and then delve into how these might be informed by religious teachings. This exercise can broaden your perspective on the origins of your ethical framework and encourage a more nuanced understanding of secular morality.

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#406 — The Legacy of Christianity

The Historical and Cultural Origins of Christianity

Understanding the origins of Christianity provides insight into how it became one of the world's most influential religions, often blending with the cultural and political landscapes from where it began.

Christianity: Hebrew Scripture, Greek Philosophy, Persian Dualism

Tom Holland highlights the intricate tapestry of influences that shaped early Christianity. It is a blend of Hebrew scripture, Greek philosophy, and Persian dualism.

Early Christian Movement Shaped by Mediterranean Traditions

Holland points out that Persian dualism, importing concepts of good and evil, had a significant impact on Hebrew scripture which then influenced early Christianity. Jesus was deeply embedded in Hebrew scripture, and Paul, writing in Greek, brought Greek philosophical tenets into Christian thought. Holland observes that Christianity also absorbed elements culturally prominent in the Roman Mediterranean, thereby resonating with a broad audience.

Roman Empire's Ambitions and Infrastructure Spread Christianity Across the Mediterranean and Beyond

The Roman Empire played a pivotal role in the dissemination of Christianity. Holland notes that the empire's ambition for universality, coupled with its expansive infrastructure of roads and sea lanes, was instrumental in spreading Christianity far and wide. The universality aspired to by Roman poet Virgil, who spoke of an empire without limits, mirro ...

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The Historical and Cultural Origins of Christianity

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Counterarguments

  • The extent to which Persian dualism directly influenced Hebrew scripture is debated among scholars, with some arguing that the influence was less direct and more a product of a broader cultural exchange.
  • The role of Greek philosophy in early Christianity is complex, and while Paul's writings show Hellenistic influence, it is also important to recognize the distinctively Jewish nature of his thought.
  • The absorption of Roman Mediterranean cultural elements into Christianity was not uniform, and there were significant tensions and conflicts between Christian teachings and Roman culture.
  • The spread of Christianity within the Roman Empire was not solely due to the empire's infrastructure and ambitions; it also depended on the grassroots efforts of missionaries, the appeal of Christian teachings, and the social networks of early Christian communities.
  • Virgil's vision of an empire without limits may not have been directly related to the spread of Christianity, and the adoption of Christianity by the Roman Empire was a complex process influenced by many factors beyond imperial ideology.
  • The interpretation of Jes ...

Actionables

  • Explore the fusion of cultural philosophies by reading texts from different traditions and noting their influences on your worldview. For instance, you could read a Hebrew scripture, a Greek philosophical work, and a piece of Persian literature, then journal about how each perspective shapes your understanding of morality or the human experience.
  • Reflect on the concept of triumph over adversity by volunteering for a cause that aids individuals overcoming significant challenges. This could involve working with a local charity that supports the homeless, where you can witness and contribute to personal victories that redefine what it means to overcome hardship.
  • Create a personal narrative that incor ...

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#406 — The Legacy of Christianity

Symbolic and Theological Significance of Christianity's Central Tenets

Sam Harris and Tom Holland delve into the profound paradox and transformation of Christianity's central symbol: the crucifixion of Jesus.

Crucifixion of Jesus: A Horrific, Shameful Execution Becomes Christianity's Central Symbol

The central paradox of Christianity, as discussed by Harris, is the veneration of a living God who underwent a form of execution that signified utter failure and shame. Holland adds that crucifixion was not only agonizing but also deeply humiliating, primarily because it was reserved for slaves. Romans considered the shame of such a death nearly worse than the physical pain itself.

Paradox of a Tortured and Killed Living God

One finds in the writings of Paul traces of early Christian astonishment at the idea of the God of Israel, understood to be Jesus, experiencing such a horrendous death. Early Christian art reflects this tension, portraying a conflict between a victorious, athletic Christ and the grim reality of crucifixion. The acknowledgment of Christ as dead on the cross solidified over five centuries later, as discussed by Holland.

Elevation of the Crucifixion as a Sacred Symbol Reshaped Views on Weakness and Power

The crucifixion's elevation reshaped ethical views on weakness and power, countering the prevailing Greco-Roman perspective of "might makes right" as emphasized by the analysis of Harris and Holland.

Christian Value of Weakness ...

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Symbolic and Theological Significance of Christianity's Central Tenets

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Counterarguments

  • The crucifixion may not be universally seen as shameful within all historical contexts; some may argue that it represents the ultimate sacrifice and is therefore honorable.
  • The paradox of the crucifixion as a symbol might be interpreted differently within various Christian denominations, with some emphasizing the triumph over death rather than the shame of the cross.
  • The reshaping of views on weakness and power through the crucifixion could be seen as one interpretation among many; other religious or philosophical systems may also promote the value of humility or the strength in weakness without reference to the crucifixion.
  • The astonishment of early Christians at the idea of a living God experiencing death could be contested by those who argue that other religious traditions also have concepts of deities dying or suffering.
  • The depiction of Christ in early Christian art as both victorious and suffering might not be a conflict but rather a complex theological statement about the nature of Christ, which is open to multiple interpretations.
  • The solidification of the acknowledgment of Christ as dead on the cross over five centuries could be seen as a natural development of theological thought rather than a delayed recognition.
  • The claim that Christianity reshaped ethical views on weakness and power might be challenged by pointing out that ethical evolution is multifaceted and influenced by numerous factors, not solely by the crucifixion narrative.
  • The contrast between Christian ...

Actionables

  • Reflect on personal instances where perceived weakness led to strength by journaling about times you've faced adversity and how it ultimately contributed to your growth. This exercise can help you reframe your understanding of power and weakness in your own life, similar to how early Christians reinterpreted the crucifixion.
  • Create a piece of art or writing that explores the theme of triumph in adversity, drawing inspiration from the early Christian art that depicted both the victorious and suffering aspects of Christ. This can be a way to personally explore the paradoxical nature of the crucifixion and its impact on ethical views.
  • Engage in a ...

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#406 — The Legacy of Christianity

Christian Ethics' Influence on Western Thought

A deep dive into the pervasive yet often unrecognized influence of Christian ethics on Western thought and morality, which extends into the domains of secularism and humanism.

Christianity's Role in Western Moral and Political Thought

Christian Influences on Western Secular Morality

Harris introduces the idea that many secular individuals, including himself as an outspoken atheist, may not recognize the influence of Christianity on their moral compass. The thesis put forth in "Dominion" argues that Christianity has left a substantial legacy in the ancient world, and that even secular moral values are deeply shaped by Christian ethics. Tom Holland underscores this point by suggesting that even non-believers must acknowledge the cultural impact that religious texts and ideas have had on shaping their own ideologies.

Division Between "Religious" and "Secular" Realms Traces Back to 11th Century "Papal Revolution"

Secularism's Roots: Christianity's Role in Church-State Separation

Holland reflects on how his understanding of Christianity's distinctiveness and its profound influence on his own worldview crystallized as he explored the relationship between major religious traditions. Furthermore, Holland stresses the importance of recognizing Christianity's contributions to present modes of thinking and ethical frameworks by "stress testing" the theory during the writing of his book, "Dominion."

He delves into the transformative period known as the Papal Revolution within Latin Ch ...

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Christian Ethics' Influence on Western Thought

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Counterarguments

  • The influence of Christianity on secular morality is not exclusive; other philosophical and religious traditions, such as Greco-Roman thought, Enlightenment rationalism, and Eastern philosophies, have also significantly shaped Western secular morality.
  • The concept of separating church and state can also be traced to philosophical developments during the Enlightenment, where thinkers like John Locke advocated for tolerance and the idea of a secular government.
  • The division between religious and secular realms may not be as clear-cut as suggested; there are many instances where religious and secular ideas have intermingled and influenced each other throughout history.
  • The assertion that non-believers must acknowledge the cultural impact of religious texts on their ideologies could be seen as an overgeneralization; individuals may derive their moral values from a variety of sources, including personal experience, education, and cultural traditions that are not necessarily religious.
  • The idea that secularism is a product of Christian efforts, specifically the Papal Revolution, may overlook the complex historical processes and the contributions of non-religi ...

Actionables

  • You can explore the ethical origins of your personal beliefs by journaling about moral decisions you make over a week, noting which values guide your choices and researching the historical roots of those values. For example, if you value community support, investigate how this aligns with Christian teachings on charity and how it has evolved in secular contexts.
  • Start a book club with friends or colleagues focusing on texts that discuss the historical interplay between religion and secularism, such as works on the Papal Revolution, to better understand the development of secular thought and its ties to religious movements. This can lead to informed discussions on how these historical events have shaped modern governance and personal worl ...

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#406 — The Legacy of Christianity

Contrast Between Christian Ethics and Ancient World Ethics

In a telling discussion, the hosts delve into the stark differences between Christian ethics and the ethics of the ancient world, highlighting an evolution of moral perceptions influenced by the pillars of Christianity even among those without religious belief.

Ancient Greeks, Romans Celebrated Strength, Power, "Might Makes Right," as Seen In Caesar's Conquests

Harris and Holland compare the morality of the ancient Greeks and Romans to modern ethics, noting the former's celebration of strength and power. Harris regards the ancient ethics as foreign and pathological, a sentiment bolstered by Holland’s insights on the Romans, who equated their conquests and power with high morality and divine favor. Caesar's mass casualties in Gaul were hailed as exemplary, spotlighting a moral code that glorified conquest and might.

Acceptance of Practices Like Crucifixion, Enslavement, and Mass Slaughter vs. Christian Emphasis on Moral Value Of Weak and Suffering

The discussion touches on brutal practices such as crucifixion, noting its normalization juxtaposed with Stoic philosophy, which Harris finds peculiar. Holland observes that rejection of such barbarism today stems from a Christian moral framework that values the weak and suffering—a stark contrast to the ancient world's ethics where such cruelty was not only standard but often celebrated.

The Author's Intellectual and Moral Evolution Influenced by Christian Ethics

Holland shares a personal narrative about his intellectual and moral journey, how his fascination with the grandeur of Greece and Rome gave way to an awareness of Christian-infused moral intuitions.

Glamour of Ancient Civilizations Gave Way To Awareness of His Moral Intuitions Shaped by the Christian Tradition Despite Lacking Belief

Initially thrilled by the brilliance of ancient civilizations, ...

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Contrast Between Christian Ethics and Ancient World Ethics

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • The ancient Greeks and Romans had complex ethical systems, such as Stoicism and Aristotelian virtue ethics, which also emphasized virtues like wisdom, justice, temperance, and courage, not solely strength and power.
  • The concept of "might makes right" is an oversimplification of ancient ethics and does not account for the philosophical debates and moral diversity of the time.
  • The admiration of strength and power was not unique to the ancient world and can be found in various cultures and historical periods, including those influenced by Christianity.
  • Christian ethics have evolved over time and have been interpreted in various ways, sometimes even used to justify acts of violence and conquest similar to those of the ancient Romans.
  • The influence of Christianity on Western moral philosophy is significant, but it is not the sole contributor; Enlightenment thought, humanism, and other philosophical traditions have also played a crucial role.
  • The idea that Christian ethics universally emphasize the moral value of the weak and suffering can be contested by historical instances where Christian institutions or societies have marginalized or oppressed vulnerable groups.
  • The notion that the rejection of barbaric practices is solely due to Christian moral frameworks ignores the contributions of secular ethics and the role of cultural and societal evolution in moral perceptions.
  • The impact of Chris ...

Actionables

  • Reflect on your personal value system by journaling about the traits you admire in historical figures and why. This can help you understand how your moral compass has been shaped by various cultural influences. For example, if you admire a figure for their compassion rather than their conquests, it may indicate a leaning towards the ethics of care over the glorification of power.
  • Volunteer at a local charity that supports marginalized groups to actively engage with the principle of valuing the weak and suffering. By doing so, you'll be embodying the Christian ethical tradition that esteems acts of kindness and compassion, which contrasts with the ancient celebration of strength and power.
  • Start a ...

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