#404 — What If Consciousness Is Fundamental?

Annaka Harris and Sam Harris venture into the depths of the longstanding enigma of consciousness, exploring its potential fundamentality in the constitution of reality.

The Puzzling Nature of Subjective Consciousness

Consciousness Is Unlike Other Scientific Phenomena Because It Cannot Be Externally Observed

Annaka Harris and Sam Harris embark on a discussion highlighting consciousness as an aspect of human life that cannot be externally observed. They delve into the complexities surrounding its subjective nature and emphasize the struggle to grasp its essence through empirical study.

Assumption: Consciousness From Complex Information Processing

Brain's Complexity Implies Consciousness Requires High Complexity

Annaka Harris underscores the "strong assumption" that consciousness arises from complex information processing in the brain. She refers to the brain's intricate design, associating the richness of consciousness with the brain's unprecedented complexity. The conversation touches on the possibility that within the brain, there may exist multiple points of conscious experiences or "islands" due to this complexity.

Lack of Evidence May Constrain Understanding

The potential for complex behaviors, like those observed in plants, challenges the notion that brain-like complexity breeds consciousness. Sam Harris contrasts consciousness with observable phenomena such as life or intelligence. He conjectures that, though many anticipate a demystification of consciousness via neuroscience, the lack of concrete evidence remains a significant barrier. Harris argues that popular intuitions about consciousness fall apart under scrutiny, especially given that we can imagine non-conscious entities processing information similarly the brain does without having subjective experiences, questioning why complex processes in the brain yield such experiences.

Consciousness as a Fundamental Property of the Universe

Consciousness Fundamental; Part of Basic Reality, Not Complexity-Dependent

Lee Smolin and Annaka Harris suggest consciousness might not only emerge from complexity but could also be a fundamental part of the universe's fabric. Annaka Harris indicates that our assumptions about consciousness's source and effects may be predicated on illusions, revealing the challenges in asserting that consciousness arises purely from the complexity of information processing.

Annaka Harris cites the uniformity of evidence for consciousness in systems akin to humans, inferring that this likeness may impede a broader understanding of diverse expressions of consciousness that may not be complexity-dependent. To elucidate this point, she questions why human complex processes like vision necessitate conscious experience, whereas plants exhibit complex behaviors without apparent consciousness.

An Implausible but Worthwhile Scientific Question

Annaka Harris poses an intriguing hypothesis: If consciousness is fundamental, then numerous distinct experiences could emerge independent of our memory or perceived self—conceivably even within a liver, should it have an experience bound to its existence ...

Sam Harris and Annaka Harris introduce the discussion about the nature of space and time in physics. This discussion explores the radical ideas that challenge our understanding of these fundamental concepts, pondering the limitations of human perception and the emergent properties of physical reality.

Space as a Perceptual Interface, Not Fundamental Reality

The idea that space may not be a fundamental component of reality but an emergent property is gaining traction among physicists.

Holographic Principle: Space As Emergent, Not Fundamental

Annaka Harris compares perceiving space to how we perceive color, suggesting it's not something that necessarily exists in the universe as we experience it. She brings up the holographic principle as one explanation of what could be giving rise to the domain we call space, indicating it's not fundamental but emergent. George Musser explains that while spatial structures may appear different, they are fundamentally the same according to the holographic principle. An example is a planet within a space and its equivalent on the boundary of that space. Locations that appear to be far apart may lie directly on top of each other, with spatial relationships being more about differing energy levels.

String theory considers additional spatial dimensions associated with different particles' properties, which again may hint at something more fundamental that is not space itself. According to string theory, space dimensions can be seen as emergent, with fundamental constituents organizing in such a way that space appears like a figure in a pop-up book.

Space Experience May Be Like Perceiving Color: A Perceptual Construct, Not Fundamental

Annaka Harris discusses clues from physics, like entanglement and non-locality, that suggest space may not be fundamental and could be an emergent property. She compares conscious experiences of space, like seeing a lamp across a room, to perception constructs like color. She uses visual illusions as an analogy, describing how space could be similar to a perceptual construct—a useful but not fundamentally truthful representation.

Debates On Whether Time Is Fundamental or Emergent

In the realm of time, there is significant debate among physicists.

Physicists Disagree: Smolin Sees Time As Fundamental, Rovelli As Illusion

There's a lack of consensus among scientists about whether time is fundamental. Lee Smolin, working on quantum gravity theories, views time as a fundamental aspect of the universe. Meanwhile, Carlo Rovelli believes time is an illusion, working on quantum gravity theories without a time variable. Rovelli claims that what we perceive as time is an emergent property from layers of experiences and processes that are woven together to create a semblance of ...

Sam Harris and Annaka Harris engage in discussions about consciousness as a fundamental aspect of reality, exploring its interconnection with the physical world as understood through physics, meditation, and even psychedelics.

Meditation Insights and Physics Theories Challenging Space-Time Fundamentality

Annaka Harris and Rovelli examine the parallels between insights gained from meditation and groundbreaking physics theories that challenge our conventional understanding of space and time.

Meditation Unveils Reality's Fluid, Dynamic, Interconnected Consciousness

Annaka Harris speaks about how meditation can shift or even eliminate the typical perceptions of space, time, and self. She describes a meditative state where reality is perceived as extremely dynamic and process-oriented, contrasting sharply with the default stable and static viewpoint of daily life. Harris mentions that Buddhist teachings reference the present as the "passing moment," reflecting an understanding that nothing is stable. Similarly, Harris and Rovelli discuss the concept of the universe as defined by processes rather than objects, suggesting that meditation can offer a more accurate window onto reality.

Caution In Equating Subjective Experiences With Objective Physical Truths

Despite these parallels, Annaka Harris raises caution in directly equating subjective experiences with objective physical truths, as neuroscience shows that the feeling of making decisions is not what actually initiates action. She further notes the challenges in projecting personal consciousness onto other entities, like trees, suggesting such experiences cannot reliably reflect others' true experiences.

Revising Our Intuitions About Space, Time, and Causality

The Harrises and their guests discuss how our common intuitions often fail to capture the intricate nature of reality as revealed by scientific inquiry.

Common Sense Often Fails to Capture Deeper Physics Realities

George Musser talks about the special properties of three-dimensional space, explaining the mathematical reasons that underpin the complexity of structures in our dimension. Similarly, Rovelli argues that space and time are emergent concepts and that our intuitions about them do not reflect the deeper reality that physicists study. He suggests that at the fundamental quantum gravity level, time does not exist in the Newtonian sense. This implies that our everyday understanding of events, space, and time will likely need considerable revision.

Scientific Inquiry May Reveal Perspectives On ...