Podcasts > Huberman Lab > Using Stem Cells to Cure Autism, Epilepsy & Schizophrenia | Dr. Sergiu Pașca

Using Stem Cells to Cure Autism, Epilepsy & Schizophrenia | Dr. Sergiu Pașca

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In this Huberman Lab episode, Dr. Sergiu Pasca explores autism as a complex neurodevelopmental condition affecting approximately 3% of the global population. He explains autism's genetic foundations, describing it not as a single condition but as a spectrum of disorders with hundreds of associated genes, where mutations can be either inherited or occur spontaneously.

The discussion then shifts to stem cell and organoid technology's role in brain development research. Dr. Pasca details how his lab uses pluripotent stem cells and 3D organoids to study conditions like Timothy syndrome, leading to the development of new therapeutic approaches. He also addresses ethical considerations surrounding stem cell research and the importance of establishing guidelines for responsible research practices in this field.

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Using Stem Cells to Cure Autism, Epilepsy & Schizophrenia | Dr. Sergiu Pașca

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Using Stem Cells to Cure Autism, Epilepsy & Schizophrenia | Dr. Sergiu Pașca

1-Page Summary

The Complexity and Spectrum of Autism

In this episode, Dr. Sergiu Pasca and Andrew Huberman explore autism's complexities as a neurodevelopmental condition. Dr. Pasca explains that autism now affects roughly 3% of the global population, marking a significant increase from historical rates.

Genetic Foundations and Diversity

Dr. Pasca reveals that autism has strong genetic underpinnings, with about 20% of clinic visits resulting in genetic determinations. He describes autism not as a single condition but as a spectrum of disorders with hundreds of associated genes, where mutations can be either inherited or occur spontaneously. The condition's manifestations range from fully functional individuals to those with severe impairments, with males generally showing more severe symptoms than females.

Stem Cells and Organoid Technology

Dr. Pasca discusses how pluripotent stem cells are revolutionizing brain development research. His lab has maintained human neuron cultures for up to three years, enabling detailed study of conditions like Timothy syndrome. The conversation explores the advancement from 2D cultures to 3D organoids, which can self-organize into functional neural networks. Pasca's team has successfully transplanted these organoids into rat brains, demonstrating their potential for studying real-time neural connections.

Therapeutic Applications

The research has led to significant breakthroughs, particularly in understanding Timothy syndrome, a genetic form of autism. Dr. Pasca explains how studying patient-derived neurons has revealed specific calcium dynamics defects, leading to the development of nucleic acid-based therapies. This work has culminated in preparing the first clinical trial based entirely on human stem cell model studies, marking a significant milestone in personalized treatment for neurological conditions.

Ethical Considerations

Dr. Pasca addresses several ethical concerns surrounding stem cell and organoid technology, including issues of consent for human cell use and the integration of human cells into animal models. He emphasizes the importance of clear scientific communication and proper terminology, noting that a consortium has been established to develop guidelines for responsible research practices in this field.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • The reported increase in autism rates could be influenced by better detection and diagnostic criteria rather than an actual increase in incidence.
  • The figure of 20% for genetic determinations in clinic visits might not capture the full complexity of autism's genetic factors, as many cases may involve interactions between multiple genes and environmental factors.
  • While autism is indeed a spectrum, the categorization of hundreds of genes may oversimplify the condition, as not all genes may have equal impact or be relevant in each case.
  • The statement that males generally show more severe symptoms than females could be challenged by the argument that females may be underdiagnosed or misdiagnosed due to different symptom presentation or societal biases.
  • The use of pluripotent stem cells, while promising, may not yet fully replicate the complexity of a living brain, and results from organoid studies may not always translate directly to human conditions.
  • The transplantation of human organoids into rat brains raises questions about the limits of such models in accurately reflecting human brain disorders.
  • The development of nucleic acid-based therapies is still in its early stages, and their long-term efficacy and safety remain to be proven in clinical settings.
  • The preparation of a clinical trial based on human stem cell model studies is a significant step, but it is important to note that many such trials do not advance beyond early phases due to unforeseen complications or lack of efficacy.
  • Ethical considerations around consent and the use of human cells in animal models are complex and ongoing; the establishment of guidelines does not necessarily address all potential ethical issues that may arise.
  • Emphasizing clear scientific communication and proper terminology is important, but it does not guarantee that the public or policymakers will understand or accept the scientific findings.

Actionables

  • You can support autism research by participating in genetic studies if you or a family member has been diagnosed with autism, contributing to the understanding of its genetic underpinnings. By providing a saliva or blood sample to a reputable research institution, you help scientists identify and study the genetic variations associated with autism, which can lead to more personalized treatments.
  • Enhance your understanding of the autism spectrum by engaging with interactive online platforms that simulate the sensory experiences of individuals with autism. Websites and apps are available that allow you to experience how sensory processing differences might affect those on the spectrum, fostering empathy and awareness of the diverse manifestations of autism.
  • Advocate for ethical research practices by staying informed and joining discussions on the use of human cells and animal models in scientific studies. You can do this by subscribing to newsletters from bioethics organizations, attending public lectures, or participating in community forums, which often address the ethical considerations of cutting-edge research and its implications for society.

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Using Stem Cells to Cure Autism, Epilepsy & Schizophrenia | Dr. Sergiu Pașca

The Complexity and Spectrum of Autism

Dr. Sergiu Pasca and Andrew Huberman delve into the intricacies of autism, a neurodevelopmental condition with a spectrum of expressions. Together they discuss the genetic roots, diverse manifestations, and the evolving understanding and treatment approaches.

Autism: A Complex Spectrum Condition

Autism Prevalence Nears 3%

Dr. Sergiu Pasca highlights the complexity of autism as a behaviorally defined spectrum resulting from neurodevelopmental disorders. He discusses with Andrew Huberman the notable increase in autism's prevalence, which has reached roughly 3% of the global population. Pasca elaborates on the puzzling rise from what was once a rare disease and considers the changes in diagnostic criteria over time.

Genetic Component Linked To Autism Forms

Autism: A Collection of Disorders With Diverse Genetic and Biological Roots

Pasca reveals that autism has a strong genetic component, which contrasts with the previously held psychoanalytic views of the '50s and '60s. He informs Huberman that when families come into the clinic with an autism diagnosis, there's a 20% chance of leaving with a genetic determination. Moreover, genetic mutations associated with autism could be inherited or result from de novo mutations, reflecting the disorder's genetic complexity.

Pasca points to hundreds of genes linked to specific forms of autism and indicates the condition's high heritability. The genetic variations are "individually rare but collectively common," and even historical environmental factors like [restricted term] are part of the wider picture. Autism, Pasca asserts, is not a single disease but a spectrum, where some people are fully functional while others are severely impaired.

Autistic Individuals: High-Functioning To Impaired Abilities

Debates on Autism Spectrum Symptom Differences and Treatment Approaches

Dr. Pasca is focusing on treatments for profound autism, emphasizing the diversity among autistic individuals, from high-functioning to those with considerable impairments. He addresses the skewed ...

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The Complexity and Spectrum of Autism

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • The reported prevalence of autism at around 3% could be influenced by factors such as increased awareness, broader diagnostic criteria, and better detection methods, rather than a true increase in incidence.
  • While there is a strong genetic component to autism, environmental factors and their interaction with genetics (epigenetics) also play a significant role, which is not fully addressed in the main ideas.
  • The concept of "high-functioning" and "low-functioning" autism is controversial and can be seen as oversimplifying the abilities and challenges of autistic individuals, potentially leading to misunderstandings about their needs and capabilities.
  • The idea that females might be underdiagnosed due to better symptom masking could be an oversimplification, as it may also involve biases in diagnostic practices or differences in the expression of autism in females.
  • The anecdotal evidence of high fevers improving communication in some nonverbal autistic individuals requires rigorous scientific investigation before it can be considered a potential avenue for treatment approaches.
  • The term "diagnostic migration" might imply a one-way transition from intellectual disability to autism, whereas the reality is more ...

Actionables

  • You can increase awareness by sharing information about the genetic complexity of autism with your social circle, emphasizing that it's not a one-size-fits-all condition. Explain to friends and family that autism's wide spectrum means that each individual's experience is unique, which can foster a more nuanced understanding and reduce stereotypes.
  • Encourage friends who are parents to observe and appreciate diverse developmental milestones in children, rather than strictly adhering to standardized expectations. This can help them recognize and embrace the broad range of normal behaviors, potentially leading to earlier identification of neurodevelopmental differences without stigmatizing them.
  • Start a conversation about the ...

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Using Stem Cells to Cure Autism, Epilepsy & Schizophrenia | Dr. Sergiu Pașca

Stem Cells & Organoid Tech in Brain Development & Disease Modeling

The use of stem cells and organoid technology is revolutionizing our understanding of brain development and the modeling of neurological disorders.

Patient-Derived Ipscs Enable In Vitro Brain Development and Neurological Disorder Studies

Sergiu Pașca underscores the significance of pluripotent stem cells, which are essential in early embryonic stages, for their ability to differentiate into various organs. These cells allow researchers to model diseases and may eventually be used in transplants. Methods like the Yamanaka factors enable scientists to reprogram cells, essentially turning back the clock of a cell by removing age-related markers.

Ipscs Differentiate Into Neurons and Brain Cells, Enabling Observation of Neural Cell Development and Function

The reprogramming of these pluripotent stem cells allows for in-depth studies of neural cell development. Andrew Huberman discusses the use of iPSCs provided with Yamanaka factors to grow into neurons and other brain cells, which can be observed as they develop. Sergiu Pașca's lab has maintained human neuron cultures for up to three years, and these patient-derived neurons have been instrumental in observing conditions such as Timothy syndrome, where an excess of calcium was observed within the cells.

Organoids and Assembloids Model Brain Tissue and Circuit Self-Organization

These advanced in vitro models closely replicate developmental timings seen in the human brain, including neuronal maturation and the formation of functional neural networks.

Advanced In Vitro Models Mirror Human Brain Development, Neuronal Maturation Timing, and Functional Neural Networks Formation

Dr. Pașca describes the transition from 2D cultures to 3D self-organizing cells, inspired by Yoshiki Sasai's work, and reflects on the potential of these 3D models. The protocols developed allow for the growth of cell balls or organoids, which can self-organize into functional neural networks, demonstrated by the emergence of spontaneous activity. When’s team has even transplanted organoids into rat brains, where human cells integrated and responded to external stimuli, showing the possibilities of studying functional connections in real-time.

Organoids & Assembloids Enable Study of Brain Disorders, Capturing Emergent Properties Not Seen In 2d Cultures

Pașca emphasizes the importance of creating models that replicate true brain circuit properties, especially for understanding comple ...

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Stem Cells & Organoid Tech in Brain Development & Disease Modeling

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Patient-Derived iPSCs are induced pluripotent stem cells that are created from adult cells, like skin cells, and reprogrammed to an embryonic-like state. These cells retain the genetic information of the individual they were derived from, making them valuable for studying diseases specific to that person. Researchers can use these iPSCs to create models of various diseases, including neurological disorders, to better understand their mechanisms and potentially develop personalized treatments.
  • Timothy syndrome is a rare genetic disorder characterized by physical malformations, heart issues, and neurological challenges. It is linked to mutations in the CACNA1C gene, affecting calcium channels in the body. Patients with Timothy syndrome may experience a range of symptoms including heart arrhythmias, structural heart defects, syndactyly, and autism spectrum disorders. The syndrome can lead to severe complications and a shortened lifespan.
  • An assembloid is an in vitro model that combines multiple organoids or cell types to m ...

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Using Stem Cells to Cure Autism, Epilepsy & Schizophrenia | Dr. Sergiu Pașca

Potential Therapeutic Applications of Ipsc-Derived Brain Models

Dr. Sergiu Pașca discusses the promising advancements in the treatment of profound autism and other severe neurological conditions using organoid and assembloid models derived from induced pluripotent stem cells (iPSC).

Ipsc Models Identify Genetic and Cellular Defects in Severe Autism and Neurological Conditions

In Vitro Study of Patient-Derived Neurons Reveals Insights Into Timothy Syndrome, a Genetic Autism Disorder

Dr. Pașca sheds light on Timothy syndrome, which is a genetic form of autism characterized by a single genetic mutation that leads to a relatively consistent presentation across affected individuals. By studying patient-derived neurons, researchers found a defect associated with calcium dynamics, offering concrete insights into this disorder. This knowledge could be key in understanding more complex disorders like autism. Discoveries made using iPSC orgainoid technology establish an advanced understanding of Timothy Syndrome, subsequently directing the development of nucleic acid-based therapies for the condition.

Gene Therapy Strategies Tested On Ipsc Models

Timothy Syndrome Insights From Ipsc Studies Enable Potential Autism Cure

Pașca highlights the comprehensive understanding gained from the in vitro studies of iPSC-derived neurons in patients with Timothy syndrome. This understanding has paved the way for the development of therapeutic strategies, potentially leading to a cure for autism.

Dr. Pașca conveys an optimistic outlook on focusing on genetic disorders and believes that by mastering one form, there is potential to extend those findings to treat other forms of disorders. He elaborates on gene therapy's development, pondering the preferred site in the brain to deliver the gene if it can't be delivered to the entire brain.

Pașca envisions using iPSC technology to recreate neurons from patients with severe autism, allowing for the study of complex brain circuits safely outside the body. This research offers vital insights into severe forms of autism, providing a base for developing effective treatments.

Assembloids For Modeling Neural Circuits in Epilepsy and Schizophrenia to Test Novel Therapies

While discussing organoid technology, Pașca points out its application in studying genetic forms of pain as well as its extrapolation to test gene therapy strategies for disorders, including epilepsy and schizophrenia. He emphasizes the use of this technology for disorders where individuals are severely impacted to the point where they cannot live independently or communicate effectively.

Pașca acknowledges the ...

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Potential Therapeutic Applications of Ipsc-Derived Brain Models

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Organoids are simplified, miniaturized versions of organs grown in a lab from stem cells, like iPSCs. Assembloids are more complex structures made by combining different types of organoids to mimic interactions between multiple organs or tissues. iPSCs are adult cells reprogrammed to an embryonic stem cell-like state, capable of becoming any cell type in the body, making them valuable for creating organoids and assembloids for studying diseases and testing potential therapies.
  • Timothy Syndrome is a rare genetic disorder characterized by a mutation in the CACNA1C gene, affecting calcium channels in the body. This mutation leads to various symptoms, including cardiac issues, developmental delays, and autism spectrum disorder features. Individuals with Timothy Syndrome often experience heart problems, such as arrhythmias, in addition to neurodevelopmental challenges. Understanding this syndrome can provide insights into broader neurological conditions like autism.
  • Nucleic acid-based therapies involve using genetic material like DNA or RNA to treat diseases. These therapies can target specific genes or genetic mutations to correct or modify them. They can work by introducing new genetic material, silencing harmful genes, or repairing faulty genes. Nucleic acid-based therapies hold promise for treating a wide range of genetic disorders, including autism and other neurological conditions.
  • Gene therapy strategies in iPSC models involve using induced pluripotent stem cells (iPSCs) derived from patients to study genetic disorders at a cellular level. Researchers can introduce therapeutic genes into these iPSCs to correct genetic defects associated with conditions like autism. By testing these gene therapy approaches on iPSC-derived neurons, scientists aim to develop potential cures or treatments for neurological and psychiatric disorders. This method allows for personalized medical treatments tailored to the genetic profiles of individual patients.
  • Using induced pluripotent stem cell (iPSC) technology involves reprogramming adult cells into a stem cell-like state, allowing scientists to generate various cell types, including neurons. These iPSC-derived neurons can be used to create models of brain circuits, enabling researchers to study complex interactions between neurons in a controlled environment outside the body. This approach provides insights into how neurons communicate and function in the brain, offering a valuable tool for investigating neurological conditions and developing potential treatments. iPSC technology has revolutionized the field by providing a platform to recreate patient-specific neurons, offering a personalized approach to studying and potentially treating brain disorders.
  • Predictable mutations, such as the calcium channel mutation in Timothy Syndrome, are genetic alterations that are known to consistently occur in individuals with a specific disorder. In the case of Timothy Syndrome, this mutation affects calcium dynamics in neurons, leading to characteristic symptoms of the disorder. Researchers can target these predictable mutations for study and potential therapeutic interventions due to their consistent association with the disorder. Understanding these mutations helps in developing personalized treatments that address the underlying genetic causes of the condition.
  • The revision of a paper for the journal Nature indicates that the research findings are being scrutinized and refined before potential publication. Nature is a prestigious scientific journal ...

Counterarguments

  • While iPSC models are promising for identifying genetic and cellular defects, they may not fully recapitulate the complexity of living organisms, and findings in vitro may not always translate to in vivo contexts.
  • The potential for iPSC-derived models to cure autism might be overly optimistic, as autism is a spectrum with likely multiple contributing factors beyond single genetic mutations.
  • Gene therapy, while a promising avenue, carries risks such as immune reactions, off-target effects, and long-term safety concerns that are not yet fully understood.
  • The use of assembloids for modeling neural circuits is innovative, but these models may oversimplify the intricate interactions present in an actual brain environment.
  • The application of organoid technology in studying genetic forms of pain and other disorders is still in its early stages, and the efficacy and relevance of these models for clinical applications remain to be proven.
  • Focusing on predictable mutations may overlook the polygenic and environmental factors that contribute to neurological and psychiatric conditions.
  • The excitement around a paper under revision for a prestigious journal like Nature should be tempered with the u ...

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Using Stem Cells to Cure Autism, Epilepsy & Schizophrenia | Dr. Sergiu Pașca

Ethical Considerations Around Stem Cell and Organoid/Assembloid Technology

Sergiu Pașca and Andrew Huberman delve deep into the ethical considerations around stem cell, organoid, and assembloid technology, touching on the importance of clear communication and collaboration in the scientific community to address potential ethical challenges.

Ethical Questions on Stem Cell and Organoid Integration Into Animal Models

Sergiu Pașca highlights concerns regarding the integration of human cells and organoids into animal models. These concerns center around consent for using human cells, the treatment of animals that receive transplants, and the potential emergence of sentience or enhanced abilities within the organoids. Pașca raises specific points on the source of embryonic stem cells, particularly their extraction from fertilized eggs after conception, which suggests potential ethical implications related to the timing of cell harvesting and use.

Timing of Transplantation and Integration Degree Critical for Ethical Implications

The degree of integration and the timing of transplantation are particularly critical for ethical implications. Pașca’s transplantation experiments show that if the transplantation is done too late, the cells do not integrate as well. Additionally, the developmental pace differences between species make integration challenging, as evidenced by the rapid development of a rat's cortex compared to human cortical cells.

In regards to the research of intractable forms of epilepsy, Pașca emphasizes that these ethical considerations, such as the timing and degree of integration when transplanting into live animal models, are vital. He addresses the importance of considering these factors, given the ethical impact of the substantial integration of human cells in the rat brain hemisphere.

Essential For Addressing Ethical Challenges: Clear Communication and Collaboration Among Scientists

Guidelines and Nomenclature for Responsible Scientific Use

Sergiu Pașca underlines the need for clear communication and collaboration among scientists to prevent misunderstandings regarding stem cell research. This need for collaboration is reflected in a paper published in Nature, detailing a framework for responsible scientific reporting and practice.

The conversation also touches on the importance of terminology for public understanding, with Pașca emphasizing the importance of accurate nomenclature, as terms such as "organoids" may suggest more complexity than these entities possess. A consortium is established for deciding on terms that sho ...

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Ethical Considerations Around Stem Cell and Organoid/Assembloid Technology

Additional Materials

Actionables

  • You can educate yourself on the ethical implications of stem cell research by reading articles from reputable science ethics journals to form your own informed opinions. By understanding the complexities of issues like consent, treatment of animals, and the source of embryonic stem cells, you'll be better equipped to engage in conversations and make personal decisions related to these topics. For example, if you're considering participating in a clinical trial or donating to a related cause, you'll have the background knowledge to assess the ethical standards of the research.
  • Start a book club focused on science ethics to foster community discussions about the broader implications of scientific advancements. Choose books that delve into topics such as genetic testing, eugenics, and the ethical treatment of animals in research. This will not only enhance your understanding but also encourage a culture of ethical consideration among your peers. A good starting point could be "The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks" by Rebecca Skloot, which explores the ethics of cell harvesting w ...

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