Podcasts > Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard > Armchair Anonymous: Cult

Armchair Anonymous: Cult

By Dax Shepard

In this episode of Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard, guests share personal accounts of being drawn into cults and cult-like organizations. They discuss the deceptive recruitment tactics employed by groups like One Taste, Nxivm, and the Seventh-Day Adventist church, shedding light on how they target vulnerable individuals through a sense of community and promises of self-improvement.

The conversation also explores the disturbing methods used by such groups to exert control, including emotional manipulation, gaslighting, isolation, and harsh disciplinary practices. By recounting the trauma endured by survivors, the episode highlights the lasting psychological impacts of cult involvement, particularly on young people.

Armchair Anonymous: Cult

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Armchair Anonymous: Cult

1-Page Summary

Personal Cult Experiences

Guests like Ruwan and Rosei share how they were drawn into cults and cult-like organizations during vulnerable times. Ruwan joined One Taste after feeling disconnected, initially drawn by the sense of community before recognizing its controlling tactics. Similarly, Rosei fell victim to a manipulative church that exploited her grief after her mother's passing.

Dax Shepard introduces Seth, suggesting other guests faced well-intentioned groups that devolved into controlling environments. Ruwan cites harmful cult methods like brainwashing and gaslighting. Rosei describes the lasting trauma of being ostracized by her church.

Nxivm and Seventh-Day Adventists

Christina recounts Nxivm's deceptive recruitment tactics for its purported self-improvement program, including high-pressure sales and disturbing rituals. The group revolved around Keith Raniere, who exploited members, especially women. Raniere was eventually prosecuted, exposing Nxivm's dangers.

Rosei and others detail the Seventh-Day Adventist church's rigid lifestyle restrictions, fear-based theology promoting government persecution, and controlling behaviors like conversion therapy and shunning. Personal accounts reveal emotional manipulation and lack of support within the church.

Programs Targeting Vulnerable Youth

Seth shares his experience being involuntarily sent to a "cultish" residential facility at 14. The program used extreme isolation, shame-based "therapy," and surveillance reminiscent of a prison. Staff employed controversial techniques like public shaming and minimal activity.

Such programs have faced criticism for exploiting desperate parents while traumatizing youth through neglect and harsh treatment, sometimes resulting in medical emergencies and deaths, says Seth. Alumni have suffered lasting psychological damage despite the programs' supposed rehabilitative aims.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • OneTaste was a company that focused on teaching practices like orgasmic meditation and slow sex, founded in San Francisco. It gained attention for its controversial practices and was accused of operating like a cult. The organization faced legal issues and investigations related to sex trafficking and labor law violations. OneTaste closed its U.S. locations and ceased in-person classes following negative publicity.
  • NXIVM was a controversial organization founded by Keith Raniere in 1998, offering self-improvement seminars but later revealed to be a front for criminal activities. Raniere was convicted in 2019 for various crimes, including sex trafficking. The group faced allegations of operating as a cult, with reports of coercive practices and a secret society within it called "DOS." The organization garnered significant media attention and criticism for its manipulative tactics and harmful impact on its members.
  • Keith Raniere is an American cult leader who co-founded NXIVM, a controversial self-help organization. He was convicted of various crimes including human trafficking and sex offenses. Raniere's leadership style involved manipulation and coercive control over his followers, leading to significant legal repercussions. His actions within NXIVM, particularly involving a secret society called "DOS," resulted in his arrest and subsequent conviction in 2019.
  • The Seventh-day Adventist Church is a Protestant Christian denomination that observes the Sabbath on Saturday. Their fear-based theology often includes teachings about the end times, emphasizing the imminent return of Jesus Christ and the final judgment. This theology can instill a sense of urgency and concern about being prepared for these events. The church's teachings on prophecy and eschatology can sometimes lead to a heightened focus on potential apocalyptic scenarios.
  • Conversion therapy is a harmful practice that aims to change a person's sexual orientation or gender identity to conform to societal norms. It involves various methods like counseling, aversive treatments, and spiritual interventions. It is widely discredited by the medical community for being ineffective and causing long-term psychological harm. Many jurisdictions have passed laws against conversion therapy due to its detrimental effects.
  • Shunning is a practice where a group or community intentionally avoids and excludes an individual, often as a form of punishment or control. It can be seen in religious settings as a formal decision to cut off social interactions with someone deemed a threat or disruptive. This exclusion can lead to emotional harm and isolation for the person being shunned, impacting their well-being and sense of belonging within the community. Shunning is a powerful tool used to enforce conformity and maintain group cohesion in certain organizations or social circles.
  • Residential facilities for youth using extreme isolation and shame-based therapy are institutions that isolate young individuals from the outside world and employ methods that induce feelings of shame and guilt to modify behavior. These facilities have faced criticism for their controversial practices, which can have detrimental effects on the mental health and well-being of the youth involved. The use of extreme isolation and shame-based therapy in such programs has been linked to instances of trauma and long-lasting psychological harm among participants. Critics argue that these approaches can be harmful and unethical, potentially leading to negative outcomes for the individuals subjected to them.
  • In some residential facilities, controversial techniques like public shaming are used as a form of discipline or behavior modification. This can involve publicly criticizing or humiliating individuals for their actions. Additionally, minimal activity in these settings may involve restricting physical movement or engagement in activities as a means of control or punishment. These practices can have detrimental effects on the mental and emotional well-being of individuals subjected to them.

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Armchair Anonymous: Cult

Personal experiences with and exposure to cults and cult-like organizations

Podcast guests share intimate details about their involvement and exposure to cults, revealing the deep emotional impact these controlling and high-demand groups have had on their lives.

Podcast guests describe their firsthand experiences being involved in or exposed to controlling, high-demand groups

Guests, including Ruwan and Rosei, discuss how they were drawn into cults and cult-like organizations during vulnerable times in their lives. Ruwan became involved with One Taste after feeling socially disconnected. He fell for the appeal of intimate connections through practices like orgasmic meditation and initially enjoyed a positive transformative experience that included meditation, yoga, and healthy eating in a communal setting. Ruwan even fell in love under the guidance of a cult mentor. However, he started to notice the control the cult exerted over relationships and how it manipulated members through sex and romance.

Similarly, Rosei was part of a church that became a trigger after her mother passed away. The controlling nature of the church became more pronounced over time, with invasive observations and accusations from the church community, pushing her away. This environment preyed on her vulnerability, much like cult-like organizations often do.

Dax and Monica discuss how even well-intentioned programs can become problematic and manipulative over time

Dax Shepard introduces Seth, and while there are no further details provided in the transcript chunk, it indicates that other guests have faced similar instances where what might have begun as a well-intentioned community evolved into something more controlling and harmful.

Guests share how they initially felt drawn to or entranced by the groups, but eventually recognized the harmful dynamics

While in the cult, Ruwan began to detect the insidious methods it used, such as manipulative sales techniques and emotional manipulation that led people, including himself, into debt. He became aware of the harmful psychological practices like brainwashing and gaslighting.

Rosei points out that the church she was involved with targeted individuals during challenging times, exploiting their need for community and support. This is a common tactic for cult-like groups that capitalize on personal struggles to attract new members.

Guests discuss the lasting trauma and difficulty of extricating themselves from these environments, even after leaving

Extricating themse ...

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Personal experiences with and exposure to cults and cult-like organizations

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Actionables

  • You can create a personal vulnerability assessment to recognize when you might be susceptible to undue influence. Start by identifying periods in your life when you've felt the most vulnerable or in need of support, such as after a significant loss or during a transition. Write these down and note what kind of support you sought. This will help you understand your patterns and potentially safeguard against future situations where you might be drawn into harmful environments.
  • Develop a checklist of red flags for manipulative behaviors to consult when joining new groups or communities. Include warning signs like pressure to conform, demands for excessive commitment, or promises of quick fixes to complex problems. Review this checklist before committing to new groups and periodically while involved to maintain awareness of any concerning changes.
  • Engage in reflec ...

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Armchair Anonymous: Cult

Specific cults/cult-like groups discussed in detail

Guests share their harrowing experiences with organizations that present themselves as benign but hide abusive practices and exert extreme control over members. Two such groups, the Nxivm group and the Seventh-day Adventist church, are discussed in depth.

The Nxivm group, also known as "Nexium", was presented as a self-improvement program but actually engaged in exploitative and abusive practices

Christina shares her story about the deceptive recruitment tactics and structured, cult-like hierarchy of Nxivm, a purported self-improvement group.

Guests describe the high-pressure tactics used to recruit members and the disturbing rituals and trauma-based "therapy" techniques employed

Christina was introduced to Nxivm's Executive Success Program by her family, representing a common high-pressure tactic in cult recruitment. She recounts how events were orchestrated with pledges, sashes, and even a dedicated week to the leader, presenting Nxivm as a structured, high-commitment organization. Additionally, Christina details how her stepmom's ascent within Nxivm involved bringing new members in, showing the deeply manipulative nature of the group.

The cult was structured around a charismatic leader, Keith Raniere, who abused his power and exploited members, especially women

The group revolved around Keith Raniere, who held a charismatic sway over the members, particularly women, which points to an abusive and exploitative dynamic. Christina's stepmom moved up the ranks and was invited to join a confidential group within Nxivm, which required her to provide potentially compromising collateral to ensure secrecy and obedience. Christina's experiences imply the significant control Raniere had over his followers.

The group has since been exposed and its leader prosecuted, but the story highlights the dangers of blindly trusting self-proclaimed gurus

Documentaries and stories from former members, including those who testified at the trial, have shed light on the nature of Nxivm and led to the public exposure and prosecution of Keith Raniere. The personal accounts of those involved with Nxivm serve as a stark warning about the dangers of blindly following self-proclaimed gurus.

The Seventh-day Adventist church was described as an insular, high-control religious group with concerning practices

Speakers discuss the restrictive and controlling nature of the Seventh-day Adventist church, suggesting it operates with cult-like dynamics.

The church promotes rigid dietary and lifestyle restrictions, as well as theological beliefs that instill fear and mistrust of the outside world

The origins of the Seventh-day Adventist church date back to a cult of personality and include controversial figures like John Harvey Kellogg. Throughout its history, the church has instilled fear in its members regarding government persecution for their beliefs. Members are raised with the notion they might be killed for their faith, and dietary laws are strictly enforced, including a vegetarian or vegan diet.

There are reports of the church engaging in conversion therapy, shunning of dissenters, and ...

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Specific cults/cult-like groups discussed in detail

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Counterarguments

  • The Seventh-day Adventist church has a global membership and is recognized as a mainstream Christian denomination with a focus on health and wellness, which some may not view as cult-like.
  • Many members of the Seventh-day Adventist church appreciate the community and the focus on healthy living, and do not feel that their lifestyle is restrictive but rather beneficial to their well-being.
  • The church's emphasis on dietary laws can be seen as a commitment to health and environmental stewardship rather than control.
  • Conversion therapy is a controversial practice that is not officially endorsed by the Seventh-day Adventist church as a whole, and views on it can vary widely among members and congregations.
  • Nxivm's legal proceedings revealed criminal behavior by its leader, but some former members have spoken about positive experiences and personal growth from the group's programs before the abuses came to light.
  • The term "cult" can be subjective and pejorative, and some argue that it is not always a helpful label when discussing new religious ...

Actionables

  • You can develop critical thinking skills by practicing the Socratic method in everyday conversations, asking probing questions to understand the underlying principles and motives behind what people say and do. This technique helps you to dissect the information presented to you, much like a detective, and can prevent you from accepting ideas at face value, which is crucial when faced with potentially manipulative groups or ideologies. For example, when someone promotes a new self-improvement program, ask questions like "What evidence supports the effectiveness of this program?" or "How does this program benefit its leaders?"
  • Create a personal "belief audit" where you periodically review your core beliefs and the groups you're part of to ensure they align with your values and aren't infringing on your autonomy. This can be as simple as writing down a list of your current beliefs and affiliations every few months and evaluating them against your personal goals and ethical standards. If you find a belief or group that imposes undue control or causes discomfort, research it further and consider seeking alternative perspectives.
  • Engage in community service or v ...

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Armchair Anonymous: Cult

The "troubled teen" industry and programs targeting vulnerable youth

Guests on the show share harrowing experiences of being sent to residential treatment programs and "behavior modification" facilities during their teenage years, often against their will. These testimonies expose harsh realities about methods that prey on both parents and children and the severe impacts that linger for years after.

Guests describe being sent as teenagers to residential treatment programs and "behavior modification" facilities, often against their will

Seth speaks about being sent away to what he refers to as a cultish school at age 14, where he would remain isolated for two years. Communication with his family during this time was scarce and strictly controlled by the staff, who would monitor and alter any exchanges. He reveals that one of the staff members had previously worked at another shut-down school previously attended by Paris Hilton, who is now an advocate against such institutions.

These programs used extreme isolation, shame-based "therapy", and other abusive tactics to try to "toggle" perceived behavioral problems

The program promoted itself as providing exceptional education with a focus on "fixing" the teens but resorted to extreme control and isolation, similar to a prison of war experience, according to Seth. He recalls monitored calls with his parents where any hint of emotion or revealing the program's nature could mean the end of the call. In his Utah program, Seth faced constant surveillance, sexuality shaming, and group attack therapies, where he was publicly shamed for being gay and deterred from any self-expression. He also spent six months in isolation, known as out-of-school suspension, with minimal interaction and activity.

There are accounts of neglect, medical issues, and even deaths occurring in these facilities, with little oversight or accountability

The schools operated on the controversial CEDU model, known for employing shame and attack therapy. Seth's environment was aggressive, with participants incentivized to expose and attack each other to escape being targeted. The facility, not registered as a mental health institution, evaded m ...

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The "troubled teen" industry and programs targeting vulnerable youth

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • The CEDU model was a controversial therapeutic approach used in residential treatment programs for troubled teens. It involved methods like shame-based therapy and attack therapy, where participants were encouraged to expose and confront each other's issues. The model faced criticism for its aggressive tactics and lack of oversight, leading to lasting negative impacts on the youth involved.
  • Stockholm syndrome is a psychological phenomenon where hostages develop positive feelings towards their captors. This bond can form due to a power imbalance and prolonged exposure to the captor's influence. It is characterized by the captive's empathy and even defense of the captor, despite the captor's abusive behavior. This syndrome is complex and not widely recognized as a formal diagnosis in psychiatric manuals.
  • Out-of-school suspension is a disciplinary action where a student is temporarily removed from attending regular classes and school activities. During this period, the student is typically required to stay away from the school premises and may have limited or no access to educational resources. This measure is often used for serious behavioral infractions as a way to address and manage student conduct issues.
  • Shame and attack therapy is a controversial approach used in some residential treatment programs. It involves tactics that aim to break down individuals by inducing shame, humiliation, and confrontation to address perceived behavioral issues. Participants are often pressured to expose and criticize each other, fostering a hostile and emotionally damaging environment. This method has been criticized for its harmful effects on vulnerable individuals, leading to long-lasting psychological trauma.
  • Paris Hilton attended a boarding school in her youth, Provo Canyon School, which has faced allegations of abuse. In recent years, she has spoken out against the troubled teen industry and the mistreatment she experienced, using her platform to raise awareness and advocate for reform. Hilton's advocacy has shed light on the harsh realities of such institutions and has contributed to the conversation about the need for oversight and accountability in programs targeting vulnerable youth. Her involvement has brought attention to the long-lasting impacts of these experiences on survivors and the importance of protecting young people from exploitation and harm in such facilities.
  • In some residential treatment programs, staff closely monitored and controlled communication between the teenagers in the program and their families. This monitoring included listening in on phone calls and altering the content of conversations to maintain a certain narrative or prevent negative information from being shared. The aim was often to isolate the teenagers further from their families and the outside world, reinforcing the program's control over their lives. This practice could contribute to feelings of isolation and helplessness among the teenagers in these facilities.
  • Group attack therapies involve confrontational interactions within a group therapy setting where individuals may be verbally abused, denounced, or humiliated by either the therapist or other group members. These sessions can be psychologically intimidating and aggressive, aiming to break down defenses through extreme verbal or physical measures. Participants may be subjected to ridicule, intense questioning, and strict rules, often leading to a restoration of limited freedom for those who comply. Such practices have been criticized for their harmful effects on individuals' mental well-being and self-esteem.
  • The financial strain on parents leading to bankruptcy is a result of the exorbitant costs associated with enrolling their children in these troubled teen programs ...

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