Podcasts > Archetypes > To ‘B’ or not to ‘B’? with Mellody Hobson & Victoria Jackson

To ‘B’ or not to ‘B’? with Mellody Hobson & Victoria Jackson

By Archewell Audio

Join Meghan Markle on the "Archetypes" podcast as she converses with trailblazers Mellody Hobson and Victoria Jackson about the double bind faced by women in leadership. How do these women navigate a business world where their assertiveness is scrutinized? Hobson delves into the predicaments of being a formidable force in her field, confronting the biases that brand her as 'intimidating,' while Jackson shares her encounters with skepticism in a space still largely populated by men. Together, they unpack the nuance required for women to assert authority, extend collaboration, and reshape perceptions without compromising their ambition and efficacy.

Witness as Victoria Jackson shares her deeply personal narrative of triumph over adversity and trauma, from surviving an assault to fighting for her daughter's life against a rare disease. Her journey serves as a testament to the strength one can harness to steer through painful experiences toward meaningful outcomes–and how one woman's steadfast resolve can galvanize change on a grand scale. Jackson's success story of defying doubt to build a groundbreaking business, alongside her monumental role in advancing medical research, illustrates that relentless pursuit and vision can break boundaries and inspire collective advancement.

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To ‘B’ or not to ‘B’? with Mellody Hobson & Victoria Jackson

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To ‘B’ or not to ‘B’? with Mellody Hobson & Victoria Jackson

1-Page Summary

Experiences of successful businesswomen being called "difficult" or "intimidating"

Mellody Hobson and Victoria Jackson shed light on the stigmatization faced by successful businesswomen who are often branded as "difficult" or "intimidating" for behaviors that are typically praised in men. Hobson highlights the challenges of balancing assertiveness in the workplace with societal biases and expectations, resulting in her perceived intimidation and unearned surprise at her kindness. Meanwhile, Victoria Jackson reflects on the skepticism and dismissiveness encountered when attempting to innovate within a male-dominated industry. Jackson's struggle particularly emphasizes the fine line women must walk between assertion and collaboration in order to reshape their reputations and achieve business success.

Overcoming adversity and trauma to achieve success

Victoria Jackson's life exemplifies exceptional fortitude, enduring the traumatic event of an assault as a teenager and later, the heart-wrenching fight for her daughter's life against a rare autoimmune disease. Jackson uses the same resolve that helped her survive the attack to face an uncertain future for her child. Defying the initial grim prognosis, she turns her pain into a purposeful journey toward seeking a cure, demonstrating how personal trauma can be channeled into a far-reaching impact that transcends the individual experience.

Pushing past doubt, skepticism and being underestimated to build a business and help others

Victoria Jackson's entrepreneurial spirit and resilience showcase her ability to transcend doubt and transform industries and lives. She challenged the norms by successfully marketing her cosmetic line via television, disregarding skepticism about the feasibility of infomercials for beauty products. Her tenacity led to a thriving cosmetics business, marked by a billion-dollar success story. On the medical front, Jackson harnessed her passion and steered the medical community towards unprecedented collaborative efforts that amounted to substantial progress in finding treatments for neuromyelitis optica (NMO). Both in business and medical research, Jackson's story underscores the potency of determination and the power to enact change by persistently pursuing one's visions against all odds.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Neuromyelitis optica (NMO) is a rare autoimmune disorder that primarily affects the optic nerves and spinal cord. It can lead to severe vision loss, weakness, and paralysis. NMO is characterized by recurrent attacks of inflammation in the optic nerve and spinal cord, causing damage to these areas. Treatment typically involves managing symptoms and preventing relapses through immunosuppressive therapies.
  • An infomercial is a type of television commercial that resembles regular programming but is designed to promote and sell products or services. They are often longer than traditional commercials and can last up to 28:30 or 58:30 minutes. Infomercials typically include a call-to-action such as a toll-free number or website for viewers to make a purchase. This form of advertising is commonly used for direct response marketing and is known as paid programming or teleshopping in some regions.

Counterarguments

  • While the text highlights the stigmatization of successful businesswomen, it's important to recognize that not all assertive women are labeled negatively, and many are respected for their leadership qualities.
  • The idea that behaviors praised in men are criticized in women can be an oversimplification, as men may also face criticism for certain behaviors, and context often dictates the response to assertiveness.
  • The challenge of balancing assertiveness with societal biases is not unique to women; individuals from various backgrounds may struggle with this balance due to different biases and expectations.
  • Skepticism and dismissiveness in male-dominated industries can sometimes be attributed to factors other than gender, such as industry norms, resistance to change, or the quality of the innovation itself.
  • The notion that women must navigate a fine line between assertion and collaboration could imply that men do not face similar challenges, which is not necessarily the case.
  • Personal trauma can indeed lead to purposeful journeys, but it is also valid to acknowledge that not everyone is able to channel trauma into positive outcomes, and some may require support and healing.
  • Overcoming doubt and skepticism to build a successful business is commendable, but it's also important to consider the role of other factors such as timing, market conditions, and support networks in such success stories.
  • The success of Victoria Jackson's cosmetics business via television infomercials is notable, but it's also worth considering that not all products or business models would find the same success through this medium.
  • While persistence is highlighted as a key to success, it's also important to recognize that flexibility, adaptability, and knowing when to pivot are also critical business skills.
  • The text emphasizes individual determination and persistence, but it's also important to acknowledge the role of collaboration, teamwork, and collective efforts in achieving success and enacting change.

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To ‘B’ or not to ‘B’? with Mellody Hobson & Victoria Jackson

Experiences of successful businesswomen being called "difficult" or "intimidating"

Mellody Hobson and Victoria Jackson explore how successful businesswomen are often labeled as "difficult" or "intimidating" when they exhibit the same behaviors that are typically lauded in their male counterparts.

Mellody Hobson on being labeled "intimidating" when advocating for herself

Mellody Hobson shares experiences where her assertiveness in the business world led to being perceived as intimidating. In one instance, when called intimidating, Hobson challenged the label, pointing out that it was the accuser's perception and not her intent or character. She also reflects on people's surprise at her being nicer than anticipated, illustrating preconceived biases against "the angry, militant black woman."

Hobson recalls a particular businessman who would physically recoil from her, which led her to experiment with whispering, resulting in a more engaged conversation. In board meetings, Hobson prefers to ask questions rather than make strong statements, finding this approach less threatening and more acceptable to those around her. Despite her thoughtful approach, Hobson acknowledges her strong opinions and has faced situations where she has been described as intimidating, indicating a significant perception gap.

Victoria Jackson overcoming skepticism and pushback to build her business

Victoria Jackson, a makeup artist, entrepreneur, and author, faced skepticism and pushback, particularly from men, when ...

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Experiences of successful businesswomen being called "difficult" or "intimidating"

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Successful businesswomen often face challenges such as being labeled as "difficult" or "intimidating" when they exhibit assertive behaviors. These labels can stem from preconceived biases and stereotypes, especially in male-dominated industries. Overcoming skepticism and pushback, navigating perceptions of aggressiveness, and balancing assertiveness with collaboration are common struggles for women in business. The experiences shared by Mellody Hobson and Victoria Jackson shed light on the complexities and biases that successful businesswomen encounter in their professional journeys.
  • Gender bias in the business world often manifests as successful women being labeled negatively for the same behaviors praised in men. Stereotypes lead to women being called "difficult" or "intimidating" when they assert themselves, challenging traditional gender roles. This bias can create hurdles for women in male-dominated industries, requiring them to navigate perceptions carefully to advance their careers. Overcoming these biases often involves a delicate balance of assertiveness and collaboration to challenge stereotypes and gain respect.
  • Both Mellody Hobson and Victoria Jackson employed various strategies to navigate the challenges and perceptions they faced in their respective industries. Hobso ...

Counterarguments

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To ‘B’ or not to ‘B’? with Mellody Hobson & Victoria Jackson

Overcoming adversity and trauma to achieve success

The journey of Victoria Jackson is one marked by both profound adversity and inspiring resilience. From surviving a horrific assault to fighting for her daughter’s life, her story epitomizes the strength of the human spirit.

Victoria Jackson surviving assault and fighting to find a cure for her daughter

Victoria Jackson recounts a harrowing experience from her past and her unyielding determination in the face of a dire medical prognosis for her daughter.

As a 17-year-old, Victoria Jackson faced unimaginable trauma when she was raped and stabbed by an assailant known as the pillowcase rapist. During this ordeal, she learned to disassociate from the situation and held onto a profound belief that she was destined to survive, feeling strongly that it was not yet her time to die.

Modeling the sense of purpose she felt years before, when her daughter was diagnosed with neuromyelitis optica (NMO)—a rare and severe autoimmune disease—Victoria refused to accept the g ...

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Overcoming adversity and trauma to achieve success

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Neuromyelitis optica (NMO) is a rare autoimmune disorder that primarily affects the optic nerves and the spinal cord. It can lead to inflammation and damage in these areas, causing symptoms such as vision loss, weakness, and paralysis. NMO is often characterized by recurrent attacks that can result in significant disability if not properly managed. Treatment typically involves immunosuppressive therapies to reduce inflammation and prevent further damage in affected individuals.
  • Dissociation is a defense mechanism where a person mentally separates themselves from their thoughts, feelings, memories, or sense of identity to cope with overwhelming stress or trauma. It can lead to a sense of detachment from reality, feel ...

Counterarguments

...

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To ‘B’ or not to ‘B’? with Mellody Hobson & Victoria Jackson

Pushing past doubt, skepticism and being underestimated to build a business and help others

Victoria Jackson’s life story is a testament to persistence, innovation, and passion for transforming lives— from revolutionizing the way beauty products are sold to spearheading research into a rare disease.

Victoria Jackson proving doubters wrong by marketing beauty products on TV

Jackson created a cosmetic company and faced skepticism about her groundbreaking idea of selling beauty products through infomercials on television. She recalls that a group of men doubted her strategy, as infomercials were a new concept at the time and it was believed cosmetics needed to be physically examined before purchase. Despite this pushback, she was convinced that there was a way to market directly to consumers via television and she managed to convince them that an infomercial was a viable idea.

Jackson transitioned from being a makeup artist to launching her own cosmetic line on TV. Although she faced insecurities about her appearance and delivery as the CEO, she decided to embrace the challenge confidently. The risk paid off; her infomercials ran for a decade on QVC, raking in a billion dollars in sales and establishing a successful business. Jackson, who was used to people telling her why things wouldn't work, had proved the doubters wrong.

Victoria Jackson pushing medical community to collaborate and finding treatments for rare disease

In response to her daughter Allie's diagnosis of a rare disease, Jackson took the determination she had in business and applied it to the medical world. She and her husband Bill Guthy established the Guthy Jackson Charitable Foundation in 2008, aiming to find a cure for Neuromyelitis Optica (NMO).

Going from cosmetics to medicine, Jackson convinced a Mayo Clinic doctor to collaborate with her, despite his initial skepticism. She had to pitch again, this time to the medical community, to cure her daughter's disease. Jackson hadn't finished high school or gone to college, but she didn't let traditional qualifications stop her. She invested in learning about molecular medicine and biology at Stanford and collaborated ...

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Pushing past doubt, skepticism and being underestimated to build a business and help others

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Infomercials are long-form television commercials that can last anywhere from a few minutes to an hour. They often include demonstrations, testimonials, and detailed product information. In the context of the text, infomercials were a relatively new marketing strategy in the beauty industry, challenging traditional retail methods. Victoria Jackson's use of infomercials to sell beauty products was innovative for its time, as it bypassed the need for customers to physically interact with the products before purchase.
  • Neuromyelitis Optica (NMO) is a rare autoimmune disorder that primarily affects the optic nerves and spinal cord. It can cause inflammation and damage to these areas, leading to symptoms such as vision loss, weakness, and paralysis. NMO is distinct from other neurological conditions like multiple sclerosis, and early diagnosis is crucial for appropriate treatment and management. The rarity of NMO means that it is less commonly encountered compared to more well-known diseases, requiring specialized care and research efforts for better understanding and treatment.
  • A bio repository is a facility that stores biological samples for research purposes. In this case, Victoria Jackson and her team created a bio repository to store samples related to the rare disease NMO. By engaging with researchers worldwide and investing in this repository, they facilitated collaborative research efforts and enabled the sharing of crucial biological materials for studying the disease. This initiative played a significant role in advancing research on NMO ...

Counterarguments

  • Skepticism about marketing beauty products on TV could have been based on reasonable concerns about the effectiveness of infomercials and the consumer's ability to assess product quality without physical examination.
  • Transitioning from a makeup artist to a CEO of a cosmetic line on TV might not solely be due to individual effort but could also involve a team of professionals and favorable market conditions.
  • While Jackson's infomercials were successful, it's possible that this marketing strategy might not work for all products or in all industries.
  • The success of the infomercials could be attributed to various factors, including market trends and consumer behavior at the time, not just Jackson's perseverance.
  • Establishing a charitable foundation is commendable, but the success in finding treatments for NMO could also be due to the collective efforts of the medical community and not solely the result of Jackson's foundation.
  • The collaboration with a Mayo Clinic doctor and other researchers might have been facilitated by Jackson's financial contributions, which could have been a significant motivator for collaboration.
  • While Jackson's active involvement in the research process is highlighted, the actual scientific breakthroughs would have requi ...

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